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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I'd not count on a code for everything, as mentioned by Alba the ECU is not really that smart. It probably is more likely to toss a code for things like "no signal", maybe not so much for a signal that is degraded or doesn't stack up entirely to what logic would suggest. Think mid/late 80's EFI programming here.

If you are surely thinking it is a GYTR Turbo kit (ECU/MAP) design error then I'd make a new thread, see if anyone else chimes in to see if they've encountered the same thing (ie. incapable of adjusting to elevation)? If they have not then you would have something isolated and otherwise rare. If they did they just sell the machine, or fix it and how? Make it SS specific if you wish. My bet is that if these kits universally had huge tuning issues at varying elevations that this kit would never have made it through testing, and at worst been pulled off the shelves until when/if the problem was corrected.

As for the standalone, especially on the cheap, that would be nice. But remember that buy once/cry once thing too, lol. Keep in mind I'm not far behind you on the potential struggles, just hoping my setup goes smoother for sure.
The smoke should lead me home on if this is an air leak or "something" else. I'd know a lot faster with telemetry. I'll update this weekend once I smoke test it.

I do misuse the buy once cry once saying(or, I don't agree with the way it's often used). I don't mean to say people should always buy Snap-On or anything like that necessarily, but I do mean spending more money trying to be cheap than it would have costed to do it right. Sometimes that is Snap-on tools, but it's more like hammering screws because all you have is a hammer and no screw gun.

I feel like we are hammering screws with these $500 canned tune / $500 fttune + $500 fuel correcting pcv + $500 dash gauges, with no closed-loop, no troubleshooting tools, inflexible, half-assed bandaid riddled systems that might fuel wash the rings at idle if there's an air leak? Or run lean to the moon if the single point of failure 3BAR sensor goes to atmosphere under boost?

Yea, $1100 sounds like "cost" and might be something he sells as an upgrade to be combined with his turbo kit only, and might include him keeping the ECU as a core/etc. There's no reason why a YXZ tuner-ready kit with harness shouldn't be doable for maybe $1k + cost of ecu, compared to the $4300 everyone wants for the Motec YXZ kit that looks like its the base M130, which is available for MSRP $2300, and I guess includes $2000 worth of software and wiring harness.
 

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The smoke should lead me home on if this is an air leak or "something" else. I'd know a lot faster with telemetry. I'll update this weekend once I smoke test it.

I do misuse the buy once cry once saying(or, I don't agree with the way it's often used). I don't mean to say people should always buy Snap-On or anything like that necessarily, but I do mean spending more money trying to be cheap than it would have costed to do it right. Sometimes that is Snap-on tools, but it's more like hammering screws because all you have is a hammer and no screw gun.

I feel like we are hammering screws with these $500 canned tune / $500 fttune + $500 fuel correcting pcv + $500 dash gauges, with no closed-loop, no troubleshooting tools, inflexible, half-assed bandaid riddled systems that might fuel wash the rings at idle if there's an air leak? Or run lean to the moon if the single point of failure 3BAR sensor goes to atmosphere under boost?

Yea, $1100 sounds like "cost" and might be something he sells as an upgrade to be combined with his turbo kit only, and might include him keeping the ECU as a core/etc. There's no reason why a YXZ tuner-ready kit with harness shouldn't be doable for maybe $1k + cost of ecu, compared to the $4300 everyone wants for the Motec YXZ kit that looks like its the base M130, which is available for MSRP $2300, and I guess includes $2000 worth of software and wiring harness.
I don't disagree with you on most points. But I do fully believe that this machine should be able to be tuned on the GYTR ECU just fine, you do NOT need closed loop for tuning (or for elevation changes), it just helps trim out some fuel delivery mapping errors (even fuel trims have some range limits). Don't get me wrong, closed loop would be my first choice, but its just not the cards we are dealt. I am going to stick with the HOPE that FTecu comes through defining all the GYTR ECU tables correctly, if not I will be asking to return the unit and going Motec. Either which way I'd still be running the WB02 gauge at minimum.

BTW I remember reading also that the GYTR kits used to come with a different brand 3 Bar MAP sensor, then switched to another that is branded "Gap Innovation". Do you recall which you had?
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I don't disagree with you on most points. But I do fully believe that this machine should be able to be tuned on the GYTR ECU just fine, you do NOT need closed loop for tuning, it just helps trim out some fuel delivery mapping errors. Don't get me wrong, it would be my first choice, but its just not the cards we are dealt. I am going to stick with the HOPE that FTecu comes through defining all the GYTR ECU tables correctly, if not I will be asking to return the unit and going Motec. Either which way I'd still be running the WB02 gauge at minimum.

BTW I remember reading also that the GYTR kits used to come with a different brand 3 Bar MAP sensor, then switched to another that is "Gap Innovation". Do you recall which you had?
I'm starting to feel like you don't need closed loop for tuning in the same way you don't need a parachute to go sky diving. Blankets and duct tape SHOULD work, right?!

Mine is the GAP 3 bar. Would love to know what the ECU is reading from it, though :)

Also, this probably isn't the thread but, instead of working, I've learned: New ECU for Yamaha

AlbaNate was working on a standalone he was expecting to sell in the $2k, but it sounds shelved.

Push Turbo is using the ECUMASTER EMU BLACK ECU, and is pricing it "at cost", probably reselling the stock ECU and as an addon/expecting people to buy his turbo kit to recoup the costs. I think this is the middle ground between a 4k motec and a $500 ECU tune if he will take my ECU and $1100 bucks and give me a closed-loop ready, telemetry enabled, unlocked ECU with a semi-reasonable base map. ECUMASTER EMU BLACK STANDALONE ECU

The only downside to this Push ECU is it only has 2 EGT sensors.

I'll call Push as soon as I can and see what they say.
 

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Enjoying the “back and forth” between you two. Seriously think it’s good discussion.
Haven’t started my install yet but when I went down to Alba for my flash, I brought my map sensor with me. Alba was able to test it for operation and compatibility.
Hey Rob, what do you know about air filter access when installing V1 on a 2021? Looks like access is way better on the V2…. correct?
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Enjoying the “back and forth” between you two. Seriously think it’s good discussion.
Haven’t started my install yet but when I went down to Alba for my flash, I brought my map sensor with me. Alba was able to test it for operation and compatibility.
Hey Rob, what do you know about air filter access when installing V1 on a 2021? Looks like access is way better on the V2…. correct?
I noticed the air filter isn't easy to get out of the cut hole, but not too bad. I do wish I would have trimmed with a bit more bravery. on the intake-side of the hole. Make sure to round off any sharpness on the cuts, you will thank yourself later...

The hell is getting the air filter housing and mounting bracket out. I'm trying to find a rivnut solution when I inevitably have to get access to the top of my engine again, instead of doing the double-wrench bolt/nut dance required now.
 

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Turns out, idling at 5000 feet for 5 minutes was enough to completely foul all of the plugs. With this turbo on the car, plug changes are worse than on a Boxer engine.

Has anyone else seen poor fueling characteristics trailering from sea level to high elevation? The YXZ/GYTR turbo CAN'T be designed to run poorly and fuel foul the plugs in that situation, and I do that about twice a year.

Guess I need to do some calling around.
I run mine at and over 5000' all the time with no issues. I have ALBA tune and trinity exhaust pipe with my GYTR V1 Turbo. The GYTR turbo will run better with an aftermarket exhaust. It really should come with kit.
 

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I'm starting to feel like you don't need closed loop for tuning in the same way you don't need a parachute to go sky diving. Blankets and duct tape SHOULD work, right?!

Mine is the GAP 3 bar. Would love to know what the ECU is reading from it, though :)

Also, this probably isn't the thread but, instead of working, I've learned: New ECU for Yamaha

AlbaNate was working on a standalone he was expecting to sell in the $2k, but it sounds shelved.

Push Turbo is using the ECUMASTER EMU BLACK ECU, and is pricing it "at cost", probably reselling the stock ECU and as an addon/expecting people to buy his turbo kit to recoup the costs. I think this is the middle ground between a 4k motec and a $500 ECU tune if he will take my ECU and $1100 bucks and give me a closed-loop ready, telemetry enabled, unlocked ECU with a semi-reasonable base map. ECUMASTER EMU BLACK STANDALONE ECU

The only downside to this Push ECU is it only has 2 EGT sensors.

I'll call Push as soon as I can and see what they say.
Closed loop is better without question, it certainly helps dumb proof the setup for most anyone, and without it you have to work much harder to get the setup dialed in with most every slight change (mod). But in the right hands and with basic visibility, it is doable and is not a case of a parachute that does or doesn't work.

Ultimately I do think you are not giving GYTR enough credit, nor are you considering that again there are likely many THOUSANDS of cars running this kit, most of them likely not even "tuned" and a good # that are tuned. I do think there would be a TON of complaints online if what you have encountered was also encountered by even 1% of all purchasers.

That said I'd keep on your troubleshooting path before you let this all occupy too much real estate in your head, unless you have goals that far exceed what the kit is supposed to be in native form anyway and feel a stand alone better fits your longterm goals. Personally I just want to spruce up a mods a smidge over the basic cookie cutter upgrades, and with that I find myself on my own, as effective remote tuning just is not going to be probable unless I follow their very specific modification recipe.
 

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Enjoying the “back and forth” between you two. Seriously think it’s good discussion.
Haven’t started my install yet but when I went down to Alba for my flash, I brought my map sensor with me. Alba was able to test it for operation and compatibility.
Hey Rob, what do you know about air filter access when installing V1 on a 2021? Looks like access is way better on the V2…. correct?
Gen 2 filter access is likely much better, but there again it probably needs to be as it is much more exposed than the Donaldson which is in an airbox. I am not sold on the Gen 2 air filter setup myself, it probably flows better but I'd rather have a bit of flow loss for better filtration. It probably really just depends on the riding you do, what I do is quite messy in every possible way and with that the airbox offers a huge buffer from the outside world.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Finally got some time to look at the Y.

No air leaks anywhere important. I bought a vacuum leak detecting smoke machine and checked the machine stone cold. I did see smoke come from a line, but it was the GYTR T junction air injection system delete cap that I just put on 30 minutes prior in prep for a lambda sensor someday. Double zip tied that, waited till smoke was pouring out of the exhaust, and no other leaks.

Warmed it up to 75C, killed it, and testeed again: No leaks.

Put it back together, and at 200ft elevation, runs amazing. Zero idle issues, zero warmup, no gas smell, tore up my parent's back pasture in 1st gear. So much fun to flick the 4wd switch and go from uncontrollable drifting/sliding around to feeling like it's on rails. AWD car manufacturers should implement that.

Anyway, I'm trying to decide if I care. I think I'm going to run it for the last two trips of the season at sea level as is, and look into an EMU Black and how to get it integrated with the SS trans ECU in the winter. I don't want to have another 5000ft trip screwed, and try to chase my tail with zero clues.

I'm going to see if i can contact someone at GYTR Yamaha about thoughts on this.
 

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Finally got some time to look at the Y.

No air leaks anywhere important. I bought a vacuum leak detecting smoke machine and checked the machine stone cold. I did see smoke come from a line, but it was the GYTR T junction air injection system delete cap that I just put on 30 minutes prior in prep for a lambda sensor someday. Double zip tied that, waited till smoke was pouring out of the exhaust, and no other leaks.

Warmed it up to 75C, killed it, and testeed again: No leaks.

Put it back together, and at 200ft elevation, runs amazing. Zero idle issues, zero warmup, no gas smell, tore up my parent's back pasture in 1st gear. So much fun to flick the 4wd switch and go from uncontrollable drifting/sliding around to feeling like it's on rails. AWD car manufacturers should implement that.

Anyway, I'm trying to decide if I care. I think I'm going to run it for the last two trips of the season at sea level as is, and look into an EMU Black and how to get it integrated with the SS trans ECU in the winter. I don't want to have another 5000ft trip screwed, and try to chase my tail with zero clues.

I'm going to see if i can contact someone at GYTR Yamaha about thoughts on this.
So are you still thinking that at elevation it would barely run and foul all the plugs? If so why not make a dedicated thread polling those who've had the kit at elevation?

I think we all already know what GYTR Yamaha would have to say about it...
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
If everyone's YXZ started stumbling after idling up to 140f, smelling like fuel, and carbon black fouled the plugs after a few minutes of throttle blipping to keep it running at 5000ft, there would have been someone in the comments of this post by now I'd think.

If there's any positives out of this, it's that I'm learning a lot.

I guess, on most EFI systems with MAP sensors, the MAP sensor acts as the barometric sensor at startup(because companies are cheap.) I think I've read people running their YXZs from low elevation to high elevation and requiring a key cycle because of this. It seems FAR, FAR better to have a filtered intake to atmosphere and a map sensor hanging off of that, just to keep tuning right ofr people going between elevations.

I'm wondering if something in that is screwed up somehow. I didn't check for pinches in the 1bar sensor's line. I don't think it's likely but it makes more sense than a leak or a bad sensor. If i had more technical information on the ECU, I could figure out if that's all the 1 bar map sensor does in the system. The service manual says nothing about it, and weirdly, most turbo conversion systems on cars seem to suggest they only use 1 map sensor. It makes me wonder if the 1 bar is JUST barometric pressure, and it's ran to the runners because rubber hose is cheaper than filter medium...

Of course, again, I feel like I'm trying to figure out if I have a Zebra or a Horse while it's buried under 6 feet of hard-pack clay and all I have is a hand shovel. I'd probably have this solved by now with standalone ECU telemetry.

I think I'm going to kick off ECU research in a couple weeks. If the 2.5k/4.5k m130 ecu can control the signals for the SS TCU, I'd think the EMU Black could. But, more research required.
 

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If everyone's YXZ started stumbling after idling up to 140f, smelling like fuel, and carbon black fouled the plugs after a few minutes of throttle blipping to keep it running at 5000ft, there would have been someone in the comments of this post by now I'd think.

If there's any positives out of this, it's that I'm learning a lot.

I guess, on most EFI systems with MAP sensors, the MAP sensor acts as the barometric sensor at startup(because companies are cheap.) I think I've read people running their YXZs from low elevation to high elevation and requiring a key cycle because of this. It seems FAR, FAR better to have a filtered intake to atmosphere and a map sensor hanging off of that, just to keep tuning right ofr people going between elevations.

I'm wondering if something in that is screwed up somehow. I didn't check for pinches in the 1bar sensor's line. I don't think it's likely but it makes more sense than a leak or a bad sensor. If i had more technical information on the ECU, I could figure out if that's all the 1 bar map sensor does in the system. The service manual says nothing about it, and weirdly, most turbo conversion systems on cars seem to suggest they only use 1 map sensor. It makes me wonder if the 1 bar is JUST barometric pressure, and it's ran to the runners because rubber hose is cheaper than filter medium...

Of course, again, I feel like I'm trying to figure out if I have a Zebra or a Horse while it's buried under 6 feet of hard-pack clay and all I have is a hand shovel. I'd probably have this solved by now with standalone ECU telemetry.

I think I'm going to kick off ECU research in a couple weeks. If the 2.5k/4.5k m130 ecu can control the signals for the SS TCU, I'd think the EMU Black could. But, more research required.
Yeah per your convo with Albanate in post #12 he too expected that the 1 bar Map sensor could've had some play in it all, which makes a lot of sense considering you are running well when you are close to sea level which is 1 bar (but gets less and less the higher and higher you go).

As for the 3 bar sensor that is only needed if you wish to run ~30psi, as 1 bar only can read up to atmospheric levels. They could've used a 2 bar sensor as well, this would've limited sensor visibility to ~15psi.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Yeah per your convo with Albanate in post #12 he too expected that the 1 bar Map sensor could've had some play in it all, which makes a lot of sense considering you are running well when you are close to sea level which is 1 bar (but gets less and less the higher and higher you go).

As for the 3 bar sensor that is only needed if you wish to run ~30psi, as 1 bar only can read up to atmospheric levels. They could've used a 2 bar sensor as well, this would've limited sensor visibility to ~15psi.
I just wonder if they are actually reading from multiple sensors or not during operation. There's not a lot of reason from what I can tell to have more than one sensor. The 3 bar has 1/3 the resolution of the 1 bar, so you could say the 1 bar is being used as a low pressure sensor, but why did Yamaha include two on the machine in the first place? The whole setup seems weird, unless the front 1bar was originally just barometric where they decided to route it to the manifold instead of the airbox or have it's own filter.

After summer is over and work is calmed down, I'm going to look deep at the EMU Black option. I think for $1500, some RnD, and some wiring, we can have it all. If it looks like it wont interface with the TCU properly, then a Power Commander PCV will be what I go with I think(or whatever PC has the auto-tune feature), and maybe a canned tune. I can't justify the 3k on the Emtron or the 4.5k on the M130.
 

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I just wonder if they are actually reading from multiple sensors or not during operation. There's not a lot of reason from what I can tell to have more than one sensor. The 3 bar has 1/3 the resolution of the 1 bar, so you could say the 1 bar is being used as a low pressure sensor, but why did Yamaha include two on the machine in the first place? The whole setup seems weird, unless the front 1bar was originally just barometric where they decided to route it to the manifold instead of the airbox or have it's own filter.

After summer is over and work is calmed down, I'm going to look deep at the EMU Black option. I think for $1500, some RnD, and some wiring, we can have it all. If it looks like it wont interface with the TCU properly, then a Power Commander PCV will be what I go with I think(or whatever PC has the auto-tune feature), and maybe a canned tune. I can't justify the 3k on the Emtron or the 4.5k on the M130.
We would definitely need to have a better understanding of what each of the sensors is doing, but I feel it is pretty safe to say one of yours is not doing what it is supposed to at elevation. I've read that the MAP sensor (whether one, both, whatever) can take a read of Atmospheric reading before engine start to gather it's tuning calculations for elevation changes.

I'll not even budge on the tuning stuff, if the FTecu stuff doesn't work out then I'll either go with an Alba tune and cookie cutter exhaust setup OR run the mods as I really want them to be and go Motec to end the saga without further worry. Initially will just be running the kit as intended with the GYTR ECU and who knows maybe that will be enough in itself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
We would definitely need to have a better understanding of what each of the sensors is doing, but I feel it is pretty safe to say one of yours is not doing what it is supposed to at elevation. I've read that the MAP sensor (whether one, both, whatever) can take a read of Atmospheric reading before engine start to gather it's tuning calculations for elevation changes.

I'll not even budge on the tuning stuff, if the FTecu stuff doesn't work out then I'll either go with an Alba tune and cookie cutter exhaust setup OR run the mods as I really want them to be and go Motec to end the saga without further worry. Initially will just be running the kit as intended with the GYTR ECU and who knows maybe that will be enough in itself.
I think if a person has the capital to burn, and wants maximum safety, longevity and flexibilty, you skip the tuna-in-a-can and get the Motec. Unless your turbo is ASE certed install on a stock setup with an extended warranty, there are too many "my engine blew up for unknown reasons" that might have been saved by a full ECU with good limp mode programming and telemetry.

The thing I hate even more than ruined riding trips is the bucket of "accessories that costed too much but I've outgrown" that I have in my attic. The Motec/a custom ECU will grow with you and could be swapped from machine to machine easily. The FT tune sounded like it would grow as a system, with 100 dollar licences for each new bike(HATE HATE HATE "As A Service" models, but oh well), but sounds like a dead end. A one-time ECU tune locked to one shop that other tuners can't access is the exact definition of something that's going to end up in my attic in a bin once I build the engine and want do any modifications on exhaust/intake/BOV/Wastegate as I inevitibly chase more power.

I'm getting a AEM Lambda sensor/gauge and a bung installed. It wont fix the problem, but it will give me peace of mind as I go on the last tips of the year not knowing why my YXZ tried to wash down my cylender walls at elevation.
 

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I think if a person has the capital to burn, and wants maximum safety, longevity and flexibilty, you skip the tuna-in-a-can and get the Motec. Unless your turbo is ASE certed install on a stock setup with an extended warranty, there are too many "my engine blew up for unknown reasons" that might have been saved by a full ECU with good limp mode programming and telemetry.

The thing I hate even more than ruined riding trips is the bucket of "accessories that costed too much but I've outgrown" that I have in my attic. The Motec/a custom ECU will grow with you and could be swapped from machine to machine easily. The FT tune sounded like it would grow as a system, with 100 dollar licences for each new bike(HATE HATE HATE "As A Service" models, but oh well), but sounds like a dead end. A one-time ECU tune locked to one shop that other tuners can't access is the exact definition of something that's going to end up in my attic in a bin once I build the engine and want do any modifications on exhaust/intake/BOV/Wastegate as I inevitibly chase more power.

I'm getting a AEM Lambda sensor/gauge and a bung installed. It wont fix the problem, but it will give me peace of mind as I go on the last tips of the year not knowing why my YXZ tried to wash down my cylender walls at elevation.
Good work on getting the WB02, I definitely think that is the best way to some degree of safety. It should be a requirement really for any turbo'd setup especially considering the ECU's lack of intelligence, it simply needs to have some eyes on what is going on. And indeed I completely agree that going with a Motec/standalone being more than likely the way to go if doing anything beyond what GYTR had intended, especially if needing any flexibility or desiring utmost reliability.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Good work on getting the WB02, I definitely think that is the best way to some degree of safety. It should be a requirement really for any turbo'd setup especially considering the ECU's lack of intelligence, it simply needs to have some eyes on what is going on. And indeed I completely agree that going with a Motec/standalone being more than likely the way to go if doing anything beyond what GYTR had intended, especially if needing any flexibility or desiring utmost reliability.
The wideband would have alerted me quicker to the rich conditions and allowed me to avoid carbon fouling my plugs. I thought I was doing right by going with the pure CARB compliant stock system from GYTR, and was aiming at possibly never changing anything engine-related. I guess now I know better.

I am concerned that the ECU and the TCU have some complex CAN protocol comms and that's what's going to block the EMU Black from working on the SS. I don't know if the cheaper ECUs have the capability to accept CAN messages and respond. That's the only thing I can think of that would block the SS from working on the cheaper ECUs. Even if I go with the Motec M130 solution, I'd like to DIY because I think it would be fun, and save $2000 over the base unit cost. And I'm poor now lol.
 

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I'm with you on the Motec being the way to go (money aside) and I'd probably just buy it complete as I have no time to waste and will want to just get it going asap. Definitely am NOT going to try out some new unproven ECU, sounds like another immense time waster with what may just end up being something that doesnt work or take months/years of updates with unknown support. I'd rather take my chances with FTecu by a long shot than go that route, but if I don't hear back from them shortly I'll be asking to send back their product.

As for the GYTR kit I think you keep missing that there is likely something really awry with your setup, which caused this to ever happen to begin with. More than likely something that happened during the install (pinched hose, damaged sensor, broken wire, loose connector, etc). Either way you can't let some small % of issues, even if it is your own which may make it seem like them all, damage the perception of the overall functionality of the kit in base form. Most everyone by and large with the kit in GYTR form seems to love it, no complaints, etc etc.

The only reason I'd want the WB02 is to watch for things that may go awry (IF they go awry), and also see how the GYTR targets O2 readings under varying conditions such that I can tune (ie. FTecu) with those targets in mind in the future. It is also obviously a good safety/peace of mind measure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I'm with you on the Motec being the way to go (money aside) and I'd probably just buy it complete as I have no time to waste and will want to just get it going asap. Definitely am NOT going to try out some new unproven ECU, sounds like another immense time waster with what may just end up being something that doesnt work or take months/years of updates with unknown support. I'd rather take my chances with FTecu by a long shot than go that route, but if I don't hear back from them shortly I'll be asking to send back their product.

As for the GYTR kit I think you keep missing that there is likely something really awry with your setup, which caused this to ever happen to begin with. More than likely something that happened during the install (pinched hose, damaged sensor, broken wire, loose connector, etc). Either way you can't let some small % of issues, even if it is your own which may make it seem like them all, damage the perception of the overall functionality of the kit in base form. Most everyone by and large with the kit in GYTR form seems to love it, no complaints, etc etc.

The only reason I'd want the WB02 is to watch for things that may go awry (IF they go awry), and also see how the GYTR targets O2 readings under varying conditions such that I can tune (ie. FTecu) with those targets in mind in the future. It is also obviously a good safety/peace of mind measure.
I've now visually inspected the vacuum tubes for both sensors and smoke-tested the machine until smoke rolled out the exhaust, seeing a single leak in the air injection delete kit I'd installed 30 minutes prior.. So what, start replacing map sensors and vacuum tubes because it ran bad once at elevation?

The more I learn, the more I wonder if it couldn't have just been a momentary glitch or singular incorrect reading. At this point, that's more likely than a pinched hose or bad sensor with the way it runs at sea level. Could the atmospheric reading not happen if I don't wait long enough between key-on and start? Does it use the old atmospheric sensor reading if there's a momentary issue in the harness or that key-on to start too quickly? It wouldn't throw a code because it doesn't know AFRs and would chug along thinking it was at sea level, and if I was a lazy ass engineer at a cheap ass company, I'd just use the last key-on reading since you can't get a new reading until the user shuts it down.

The thing is, I DONT KNOW, and CANT KNOW until I get some telemetry. I'd have known in a half-second with a stand alone, cause the AFR would have swung below 10 and could throw a code. Then, I could pull out the data logger and see the Atmospheric/MAP sensors and see what's going on. Then, my ECU AFR correction map could keep it running and not foul plugs and give me time to diagnose. And if it was just a single bad reading issue, it wouldn't have even happened in the first place on a decently setup fuel injection system with a dedicated atmospheric sensor. And then, I could have had a nice weekend.

At this point, I think the matter is closed until I can get to 5000 feet. If I go with this current setup, I'll know to maybe key cycle a few times and let it sit key on for a while. I'm hoping to never go again on any fuel injection setup that doesn't have telemetry or closed loop tuning.
 

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I've now visually inspected the vacuum tubes for both sensors and smoke-tested the machine until smoke rolled out the exhaust, seeing a single leak in the air injection delete kit I'd installed 30 minutes prior.. So what, start replacing map sensors and vacuum tubes because it ran bad once at elevation?

The more I learn, the more I wonder if it couldn't have just been a momentary glitch or singular incorrect reading. At this point, that's more likely than a pinched hose or bad sensor with the way it runs at sea level. Could the atmospheric reading not happen if I don't wait long enough between key-on and start? Does it use the old atmospheric sensor reading if there's a momentary issue in the harness or that key-on to start too quickly? It wouldn't throw a code because it doesn't know AFRs and would chug along thinking it was at sea level, and if I was a lazy ass engineer at a cheap ass company, I'd just use the last key-on reading since you can't get a new reading until the user shuts it down.

The thing is, I DONT KNOW, and CANT KNOW until I get some telemetry. I'd have known in a half-second with a stand alone, cause the AFR would have swung below 10 and could throw a code. Then, I could pull out the data logger and see the Atmospheric/MAP sensors and see what's going on. Then, my ECU AFR correction map could keep it running and not foul plugs and give me time to diagnose. And if it was just a single bad reading issue, it wouldn't have even happened in the first place on a decently setup fuel injection system with a dedicated atmospheric sensor. And then, I could have had a nice weekend.

At this point, I think the matter is closed until I can get to 5000 feet. If I go with this current setup, I'll know to maybe key cycle a few times and let it sit key on for a while. I'm hoping to never go again on any fuel injection setup that doesn't have telemetry or closed loop tuning.
Firstly any idea why your smoke test ended up with smoke out your exhaust (with the air injection deleted)? It should stop at the intake or exhaust valve inside the chamber, unless you just happen to catch a smidge of camshaft overlap (seems unlikely).

Mostly from this thread I hope this doesn't happen to me. Last year we drove about 14 hours to get to the mountains for a ride weekend and rode trail systems up to ~10k feet. All of that for this immediate off the trailer outcome would be terrible trip. My completely stock machine was a complete slug, especially ran like complete crap initially but seemed like it "adjusted" to a tolerable state, and I was able to make it mostly work out but was an absolute chore powering up some of the climbs. Once I get this GYTR Turbo kit installed I have no way to test it otherwise as there is no where close to get any elevation around me. That said if you ever figure anything out please circle back, I'll keep the spare parts around just in case.
 
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