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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First off I would like to say thanks for the great content in this forum. I would like use this post to introduce a Innovation project to the community and get some feedback from all of your experiences.

Me and my team are in the planning stages for building an automated manual transmission version of the Yamaha YXZ1000R. We are looking to gather some feedback about the design of the control system for an automated manual transmission side by side demonstrator based on the Yamaha YXZ1000r.

Here is a brief introduction to the automated manual transmission control system:
The clutch pedal is replaced with electronic master cylinder
The hand shifter is replaced with an electronic actuator
Electronic paddle shifters attached to the steering wheel will be installed for up shifts and down shifts triggered by the driver.

The transmission controller we are using will have multiple options to control the transmission shifts
Full Auto - Programmed shift points will automatically be triggered based on vehicle speed throttle position, and engine speed requiring no driver input to up shift or down shift,
Full Manual - Up Shifts and down shifts will occur only if triggered by the driver pressing the + or - paddle shifters mounted on the steering wheel. Example: If your in mud or climbing a hill at 10,500 rpm in 2nd gear you will stay on the rev limiter at 10,500 rpm until you select the up or down shift button.
Beast Mode - Auto programmed shifts with a 10,000 rpm shift point automatically triggered with no interaction needed from the driver for up or down. Example: If you want to go as fast as possible through a trail and don't want to worry about shifting, keeping both hands on the steering wheel just mash the gas and hold on, the transmission will automatically shift at 10,000 rpm.

Launch Control - By holding the brake and accelerator down at the same time, the engine will rev to a predefined rpm rev limit and then when the brake pedal is released the clutch will automatically be released and the rev limit will be removed.

Drive, Reverse, Auto, Manual, and Beast Mode will all be selectable by the driver

If anyone has any feedback or questions about our system design it would be greatly appreciated!!
 

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I think some people would like this option plus all the different modes you have should work real good.

To be 100% clear in full auto mode a person would not need to touch the clutch pedal in this mode it would be like having the kecluse clutch kit for stop and go ?

What would be a ball park retail price ?
 

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Sounds like a great project, get on it!

Yamaha has offered YCC-S (Yamaha Chip Controlled Shifting) on their FJR1300 for some time now. It could(?) potentially end up as an option on the YXZ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@dirt rocket
Your right about auto mode. There actually would be no clutch pedal in the vehicle at all. Stop and go would be coordinatredc completely by the transmission control module.

We are working on the demonstrator now and don't have all the details put together for pricing but thanks for the interest
 

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Well guys, I'm paralyzed from the waist down and the only thing keeping me from owning one of these is $20,000 and the fact that they have a clutch peddle. Now you could could solve my problem by giving me you're demo when you're done with it.IIt would make a nice a tax write off for you and I'd be a happy camper. Ha, Ha!
 

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I think AUTO BLIP would be the first product I'd develop and sell. Just my opinion.

 

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My wife's MR2 Spyder has a sequential 6 speed (SMT). It has a pretty complex computer controlled hydraulic system. The service manual just for the clutch and transmission is 2 inches thick! The shifter is a joy stick and no clutch pedal. I think with some simple changes this concept would be great. You could plug in a tablet and custom tune the engine and transmission. Can't wait to see where you go with this!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@ Big Wheels, Thanks for the interest, in some of our first interviews we interviewed a dealer in FLint Michigan which knew of a gentleman who used to race motorcros but was also paralyzed from the waist down. Our first demonstrator will not include hand throttle but hat could be easily adapted.

@Kalop we discussed using only the ignition cut as in auto blip but from our experience within other projects we know the low vehicle speed/ low engine speed drivability will suffer when ignition cut is all that is used to shift. We are shooting for full torque control with our system so we can filter in the torque in and out during the shift under cruising conditions .

@ Holly wood and flying tiger Thanks for the interest and stay tuned I plan to add some pictures as teaser in the near future

@pslhead The spyder system is similar to what we are looking to do with our demonstrator.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just to help with the understanding and spur some more comments, questions or opinions here is some more details about the AMT system. Our system includes:

an electronic clutch actuator, its like a hydraulic master cylinder with a motor and small transmission which converts the motors rotation to linear motion which applies movement to the master cylinder bore
an electronic linear actuator, its an electronic motor also with a small transmission that can be controlled to move to defined position extremely fast for the shift actuation
+ and - Paddle shifters mounted to the steering wheel
a switch for auto, manual, beast mode
a TCM transmission control module which connects all these pieces and includes software and calibration to manage all the actuators, inputs and outputs

We did an initial survey about the use of paddle shifters and received mixed emotions. What do you guys think about the use of steering wheel mounted paddles??

Also for the drag racers in you guys, we discussed activating the launch with one of the paddles similar to a trans break. This could work like this.... with the vehicle stopped and foot on the brake, you then grab the steering wheel and pull on both paddles, the engine will stutter off the a rev limiter and only until you release the paddles the clutch will be released, this way both hands are on the steering wheel. If you start to spin the tires hard and the engine reches the shift point quickly the TCM would automatically engage 2nd gear for you.

This could also get real interesting on turbo applications for functions like antilag...

Right now we are looking at natural aspirated engine but a turbo engine isn't off the table. What do you guys think about the antilag launch like this one?

 

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I'm wouldn't mind using the stock shifter instead of paddles for manual mode. But paddles would probably be better. What would the ballpark pricing be on something like this? Just the rekluse clutch kit runs 800 dollars.
 

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Just for your information hand controls are already available for many UTVs. I have a set in my 2013 RZR xp 900 that would probably work with some modification.
I think that many drivers would be happy with just the paddle shift. I would imagine that you could produce it at a very reasonable price. They could still team it up with the Recluse if they wanted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
@Deyoh

We are in the innovation stage of the project and don't have a complete scope of the end cost to the user as we are hoping to pitch this to the OEM's as a factory installed option! If you were to have all the automatic shifting features in a new side by side would you expect less than $800-$1000??

About the hand gear shifter, we recieved that feedback from others as well. I think there is a lot of excitement about the gear shifter in your hand in a side by side. Justifiably so!!

Is there something that you dislike about the idea of the paddle shifters?

What about buttons on the front of the wheel?

Or would you like to have both the hand console mounted shifter and the steering wheel buttons/paddles??

Our motivations for the steering wheel mounted shift triggering is more coming from side by side horsepower trends 144hp RZR turbo today leads to ..... 200 +hp 4 cyl ......turbo =225hp... and so on... with those types of power levels things happen little faster and keeping both hands on the wheel might become more attractive / necessary to the user for safety and control reasons.

We set up a mock side by side cockpit to test our idea against different users and so far we are leaning towards paddle shifters mounted on the wheel, (they rotate with the wheel) we also got concerns about accidental shifts from bouncing around, we are undecided yet on whether the + _ is on the front of the steering wheel as a thumb button or the back of the wheel as a finger pull type conventional paddle shift.

Any input or suggestions would be great?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@ big wheels

Are your controls mounted to the dash or do the rotate with the steering wheel? Are they cable or electronic?
 

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WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!!!!!! Did you just say that you're going to undo what we've been waiting for 20 year to do; SHIFT??

just kidding. Very cool concept. I really appreciate the input from the fella with a disability. I have often wondered how I could enjoy an action sport if I ever had the misfortune of losing some physical abilities and I super appreciate the ambition of ideas like this.
 

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" would you like to have both the hand console mounted shifter and the steering wheel buttons/paddles "

Maybe have shifter options when ordering the kit ?

My vote would be have two ways to shift using console shifter or paddles in the yxz :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hmmmm. Dirt rocket I kind of like that idea of dual shifter options too because we have had feedback that users love the hand shifter but don't hate the paddles for some driving conditions.

To make both shifters work we would decouple the hand shifter mechanically and turn it into another set of micros witches.

Is the shifter travel in the stock configuration a lot? Perhaps we could tighten up the shifter throw and still have it return to fixed position by spring loaded mechanism?
 
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