Yamaha YXZ Forums banner
1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want to Start by saying this is an Amazing Machine and its good points far outweigh the bad. Yamaha builds some of the best stuff on the planet without question.

I don't think there will prove to be anything inherently wrong with these clutches. Yamaha has been doing this too long for that.
The Turbo installations we've seen thus far prove the torque capacity is there.
The parts are not breaking, they are being abused, burned and destroyed.

I think Yamaha failed to realize that many of their customers learned to "drive" playing video games and they have almost no understanding of a clutch or its workings.
The customers have no clue that they are overheating, abusing the clutch. At least in our old cars we could smell it, see the smoke coming through the holes in the floor board etc. but these things are sealed up!

Should there be a temp sensor on the clutch that triggers a limp mode?

How about a hydraulic pressure sensor in the line? Clutch abuse could easily be calculated from engine rpm, primary shaft rpm or clutch outlet rpm and Time.
The ECU would know relative speed, pressure and time and from that it could protect the clutch and make it one step closer to being "idiot proof"
I'm not saying those with clutch failures are idiots.

They should have filled an ice chest with beer and Ice to max weight capacity for the rear platform and given the keys to the "Real World Testers."

I think Yamaha should have put a lower gear in it too. Were they trying to protect the diffs and axles with this Tall 1st gear?

What do you guys think?

JD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
I tend to think a certain batch of clutch bits are faulty. I believe the early ones are fine and the more recent ones are the ones blowing up. Just a suspicion, but there are some early owners here who have beaten on their new toys pretty well. Not in a bad way, but how we'd use 'em. And other newer purchasers who appear to have done the same thing and yet have failures. I do hope Yamaha investigates all the failures and if there is a bad batch of something get it fixed ASAP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,232 Posts
I don't think you can blame the drivers on such low mileage failures.

I really feel like this will come down to a bad batch of something installed.
Seems like the little WC trail had the same concerns when k bought one. The dealer told me to drive it and enjoy it, but if something broke in the front diff, to just bring it back in firva warranty repair. Mine never had any problems, but they already knew some would.

I hate to compare it this way. But it is just like buying any of the other brands too.
Some xp cars had bad front diffs
Some xpT cars over heated easily
Some xds cars don't want to crank over good.

If you have looked at, or owned any of the others you, this wouldn't surprise you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,298 Posts
I think the first gear ratio was aimed at taking Holeshots and the critical 1st to 2nd shift when taking off aggressively. Just my thought -

It would be interesting to poll the guys that are having clutch issues if they are seasoned manual transmission users?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,622 Posts
I don't think you can blame the drivers on such low mileage failures.

I really feel like this will come down to a bad batch of something installed.
Seems like the little WC trail had the same concerns when k bought one. The dealer told me to drive it and enjoy it, but if something broke in the front diff, to just bring it back in firva warranty repair. Mine never had any problems, but they already knew some would.

I hate to compare it this way. But it is just like buying any of the other brands too.
Some xp cars had bad front diffs
Some xpT cars over heated easily
Some xds cars don't want to crank over good.

If you have looked at, or owned any of the others you, this wouldn't surprise you.
I had an early Trail and had to have the front diff replaced along with having my oil lines blow off at less than 3 hours. All problems that were remedied and it was very solid up to the point that I sold it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
I think the first gear ratio was aimed at taking Holeshots and the critical 1st to 2nd shift when taking off aggressively. Just my thought -

It would be interesting to poll the guys that are having clutch issues if they are seasoned manual transmission users?
or if the failed ones were all manufactured around the same date. IE bad batch of components.....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,622 Posts
I think the first gear ratio was aimed at taking Holeshots and the critical 1st to 2nd shift when taking off aggressively. Just my thought -

It would be interesting to poll the guys that are having clutch issues if they are seasoned manual transmission users?
Yeah, cause I'm sure on an ego filled forum they'll admit that they suck at driving.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
148 Posts
I think driver error can destroy a clutch in 1 mile and a belt in less than that... I believe this because I've seen it happen first hand...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
I think driver error can destroy a clutch in 1 mile and a belt in less than that... I believe this because I've seen it happen first hand...
Ok.... give me an example of how you can break a belt in less than a mile with a properly tuned CVT clutch ? Give me an example you've seen first hand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
I don't think this can all be driver errors. Yamaha knows these aren't all being sold to professional racecar drivers. I'm hoping a batch of bad parts and it gets fixed soon
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
148 Posts
Ok.... give me an example of how you can break a belt in less than a mile with a properly tuned CVT clutch ? Give me an example you've seen first hand.
2008 Kawasaki Teryx, bone stock first ride. Driver a buddy of mine tried to get over a pretty steep rocky ledge 200 feet from parking lot. Smoked the belt til it blew up on him, just clueless to what was happening underneath him. Let a knucklehead drive my 2008 RZR out at Rasor Rd several years ago. Machine had miles on it, but he got stuck on a dune lip 200 feet from where he took off and blew the belt which was otherwise working just fine. Same story, just clueless what was going on underneath him until it was too late. For manual transmissions, last time we were at Glamis we were on gecko rd and this guy in a brand new pristine Jeep made a uturn on the road with a couple tires still in the sand. I guess he thought he was getting tire spin, but he wasn't, he was getting clutch spin. He completely fried the clutch in that Jeep and had to have it towed out of there doing the simplest thing you could imagine. I know a Jeep is not a YXZ, but you get the picture. A loose nut behind the steering wheel is capable of doing some amazing things...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
2008 Kawasaki Teryx, bone stock first ride. Driver a buddy of mine tried to get over a pretty steep rocky ledge 200 feet from parking lot. Smoked the belt til it blew up on him, just clueless to what was happening underneath him. Let a knucklehead drive my 2008 RZR out at Rasor Rd several years ago. Machine had miles on it, but he got stuck on a dune lip 200 feet from where he took off and blew the belt which was otherwise working just fine. Same story, just clueless what was going on underneath him until it was too late. For manual transmissions, last time we were at Glamis we were on gecko rd and this guy in a brand new pristine Jeep made a uturn on the road with a couple tires still in the sand. I guess he thought he was getting tire spin, but he wasn't, he was getting clutch spin. He completely fried the clutch in that Jeep and had to have it towed out of there doing the simplest thing you could imagine. I know a Jeep is not a YXZ, but you get the picture. A loose nut behind the steering wheel is capable of doing some amazing things...
Darwin award winners. LOL Thanks for examples, I've never seen any of this ... I guess I should get out more.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
148 Posts
Darwin award winners. LOL Thanks for examples, I've never seen any of this ... I guess I should get out more.
Otherwise intelligent people... Just no clue when it comes to mechanical feel I guess... I do know that it doesn't take long to glaze a set of clutch plates. Seen it happen many times riding enduros on two wheelers in gnarly rocky steep sections. Hardly ever seen it to the point of complete clutch failure though, that is concerning to see with the YXZ now on a few occasions. if you pull a stunt like the guy in the pond though it is gong to happen. You can't just keep gassing it when there is no tire spin, obviously something is very wrong and gassing it is not the answer!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Otherwise intelligent people... Just no clue when it comes to mechanical feel I guess... I do know that it doesn't take long to glaze a set of clutch plates. Seen it happen many times riding enduros on two wheelers in gnarly rocky steep sections. Hardly ever seen it to the point of complete clutch failure though, that is concerning to see with the YXZ now on a few occasions. if you pull a stunt like the guy in the pond though it is gong to happen. You can't just keep gassing it when there is no tire spin, obviously something is very wrong and gassing it is not the answer!
Yeah that guy in the pond had no clue at all what was happening. He was slipping the hell out of the clutch to even move as soon as he was in the water, there was no need for that since it seemed to be hard bottom and he was just pushing a water wall for resistance. He could have let it settle down to a low rpm and walked it on through, but nooooo he kept reving and slipping reving and slipping for motion probably in an attempt to go faster. . . NO clutch will last long like that.

As far as belts burning up I have seen a belt get killed in a single mudhole without even moving a foot. . . . tires covered in mud all heavy and sticky, apply gas and engine revs but tires don't turn .. . . . if driver does not notice this it will be over super quick .. . .. smoke comes pouring out the cvt exhaust .. . .. . belt done for in seconds. Ledges can wipe out a belt the same way too. I have seen Jeeps with brand new clutches kill the new clutch in a few minutes trying to get over a difficult rocky obstacle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,298 Posts
Yup - all of those are great examples of clutch killers.

The correct GEARING for the application is the solution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
329 Posts
Not all people realize that the clutch pedal is not a footrest. If you never take your foot off of the clutch, it can do damage. (in normal car clutches this can tear up the release bearing bc it is always engaged.) Same thing with rest g your hand on the shifter, it puts pressure on the synchros. If your foot is heavy enough it can cause the clutch to slip ever so slightly, and this can build a lot of heat. I'm not saying this is what happened, but there are lots of ways an uninformed driver can kill a trans or a clutch.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
148 Posts
Yup - all of those are great examples of clutch killers.

The correct GEARING for the application is the solution.
Would love to hear from an official at Yamaha why they chose such a high first gear? I mean it's workable and I love the YXZ, but why? Even for wide open desert it seems like it's unnecessarily tall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Would love to hear from an official at Yamaha why they chose such a high first gear? I mean it's workable and I love the YXZ, but why? Even for wide open desert it seems like it's unnecessarily tall.
Me too, first could easily be twice as steep and bring all the ratios down a bit with it and forget the double overdrive.
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top