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Flash Tune

48K views 116 replies 26 participants last post by  Doomsday 
#1 ·
I've started this thread to address an incorrect statement I've made in reference to Flash Tune in at least 2 threads over the past several weeks.

I've incorrectly made a statement concerning the Graves slip-on flash and full exhaust system flash. I stated neither of these 2 flashes addressed fueling or ignition -- And because of what I could see in the software I stated both flashes were worthless and one shouldn't consider. There's more to this software than meets the eye. Case in point - load one of the Graves files and although one doesn't see the ignition or any of the fuel tables -- They are there in the file. They are hidden and they can't be altered.

So -- For those who might have flashed your ECU with the Unrestricted file -- You might want to try each of the Graves files and take Her for a Rip and see what you think. Again I apologize for my incorrect statements across other various threads in regards to the Graves files.

This afternoon I talked to Kirk at F/T and we went over a full page of questions I had. He was able to answer almost all of them -- I'll now follow up with an e-mail to him and he will forward to their product development team. They will address what he could not answer and will review the inclusions that I would like to see in future software updates.

The F/T team is on the road at present - Road Atlanta. When they return shortly after we should see the next software update. There are some really cool features that they already have in the works !!

For those with the Flash Tune package -- You have the Keys To The Kingdom !! Good Luck !!

Being there isn't much interest in tuning - I will refrain from making any more comments/recommendations.

FUN Times ......... :)
 
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#2 ·
Thanks Sparky,

I was kind of wondering about that as my stock file that I read from my ECU and saved didn't show anything under it as well in the software.

I do have a question for you. I was comparing the stock map under Yamaha and the unrestricted map. To me it looks like they are taking fuel out of the unrestricted one. Unless lower numbers mean more fuel. Am I reading those wrong? Also do we know what the unrestricted map is and where it came from?

Thanks,

Jeremy
 
#5 ·
Thanks Sparky,

Also do we know what the unrestricted map is and where it came from?

Thanks,

Jeremy
Sparky answered that for me in a different post.. He said it was a Yamaha racing team developed image... fuel mapping, etc..
 
#4 ·
I mentioned that those setting were hidden in the Graves image in one of your posts as well, but didnt dig any deeper than just mentioning it.. I really appreciate your post and sharing of info... so didnt want to ruffly any feathers...

Hey.. I want to actually try the Gaves vs the Unrestricted image.. have you done that yet? I dont want to until I give the unrestricted image a good test.. then can compare....
 
#6 ·
Aaron --

"Yeah man you hammered me. Ha, ha I gave up on you" -- If I've done something to offend you -- I'm truly sorry. If you would be specific I'm happy to address.

Jeremy --

Being I don't have my machine yet -- I'm a bit hampered as I can't test and verify.

Your question: " I do have a question for you. I was comparing the stock map under Yamaha and the unrestricted map. To me it looks like they are taking fuel out of the unrestricted one."

Here is a picture illustrating your question:

Text Line Colorfulness Font Screenshot


The top fuel map is the stock cyl. 1 map and the bottom is the Unrestricted cyl. 1 map. As one looks at the numerical values in any tuning cell -- The value is slightly less in the stock map as compared to the Unrestricted map. This is in the file - TPS Vs RPM as this is the hi-load fuel mapping. So -- The unrestricted file is adding fuel.

The Unrestricted map file was developed by Flash Tune - We talked about this on the phone this afternoon. I know Graves is involved in part along with the factory - But to what extent we didn't get into.

2 points on the Unrestricted file concerning the fuel maps.

1st point: I asked at what A/F each map was targeted -- Answer 12.5 to 13.0. I didn't make a further comment on this answer. I already know how to correct.

2nd point: What do the numerical values represent in each tuning cell (Fuel) -- Milligrams of fuel. We talked at great length on this point and in an upcoming software release it is going to be very easy to rebuild the hi-load (3) fuel maps without knowing anything about milligrams. We can go into this at a later date when the software is updated and includes the PC Fuel Input feature.

Hope this answers your questions .. :)
 
#9 ·
The Unrestricted map file was developed by Flash Tune - We talked about this on the phone this afternoon. I know Graves is involved in part along with the factory - But to what extent we didn't get into.
Hmm.. any notion to how much testing and with what exhaust system was done to develop the FT Unrestricted Image?
 
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#7 ·
To help clarify the question -- Where did the Unrestricted file come from ?? Previously I stated it came from the Yamaha Racing Team. I was told this by Graves in a conversation I had with one of their tech's a few weeks ago as he stated they worked with the factory race team in developing.

Also to clarify -- On that same conversation with Graves I specifically asked about their 2 flash files and why they didn't address fueling or ignition as I had bought the F/T package from them. The way the fellow answered left me with the impression they didn't address either. Although I'm well versed in tuning and software -- I didn't understand that files could be hidden within any given flash.

I'll also touch on one point - As this was one of the main talking points in our conversation this afternoon. And that's the grade of fuel. The factory recommends regular. That would put the Octane rating around 87. Also -- Many are running Turbo's with no change to the ECU.

All of the available flashes are for regular fuel. Your ears perk up yet ??

Another point -- Many of you have commented the motor really doesn't light up till one hits around 7500 RPM or so.

I've created this rather blurry pic (on purpose) illustrating and how to address waking up the motor - And at a lower RPM -- But won't make any further recommendations till I have my machine and can run a couple of test sessions. Pic:



There's more information in that pic than I've disclosed -- For the discriminating tuner you should spot it immediately .. .. .. Now that I've teased you enough -- I'll leave now .. .. :)

FUN Times ..
 
#8 ·
Rally2 --

I took a closer look at the pic I posted and I see several cells in the Unrestricted map that do in fact have a lesser value. In my conversation this afternoon Kirk stated that the Unrestricted file cleaned up the factory fueling with attention to the target A/F they established (12.5 - 13.0) which is a richer mixture than the stock file. Being I don't have my machine I can't establish what the A/F is running the stock file.
 
#10 ·
As far as how much testing -- It isn't a matter of testing as much as it is refining the factory fuel mapping. On this point -- The fuel mapping is held closer to the target A/F value and this value is slightly richer than the stock fuel map.

With what exhaust -- I'll make the assumption that it was with the stock exhaust. And this brings up the point -- Why enrichen the fuel mixture with a catalytic converter in the muffler.

Personally for me -- I've little interest in the Unrestricted flash. As soon as F/T releases the tool to overwrite the hi-load fuel map I'll do so.

Now knowing within the Graves 2 flashes are re-written fuel and ignition tables - One for a slipon and the other for a full exhaust -- One might want to flash using one of these available files.
 
#13 ·
Sparky,
Interesting point, a few months ago I posted a question on what Octane fuel to run,
ALL responses were: Run Premium 91 octane or higher !
When I received my service manual, it clearly stated "use regular unleaded gasoline only"
So we are slowing the burn using 91 octane, using a fuel map and ignition timing for a 87 octane.
I'll be running regular next outing.
Thanks for pointing that out.
 
#14 ·
KR --

That's correct. Note in Post #7 the pic I posted -- The bottom half is the stock ignition curve. This is a very soft curve and de-rates the engine as load is applied. Hence the use of regular fuel. Look at the top ignition map and see I built a much more aggressive curve. This is just a sample curve and will require premium non-ethanol fuel to evaluate. I'll test this when I get my machine.
 
#15 ·
Update that should interest most .. .. :)

I had the pleasure to work with a local shop this morning and we took 2 ECU's - One with the factory flash and the 2nd we alternated between the Unrestricted and Graves full exhaust flash.

Test 1 -- Stock flash .... Evaluated engine start and idle.
Test 2 -- Unrestricted flash -- Evaluated engine start and idle. Then the driver took Her for a rip on the sand strip out back. Now we have a base line and there is only a minute difference between these 2 flashes evaluating the criteria we established.

Test 3 -- Graves full exhaust flash. Engine start -- Immediate noticeable difference as to how the engine started. Engine idle -- It sounded different. It certainly is getting more fuel as the engine has a different idling quality to it. The driver took Her for a rip and immediately returned to where I was standing. The machine has a very noticeable difference in all aspects - Starting/Idling/Launch and low to mid RPM range acceleration and even gear shifting. Per the driver -- One has to be on top of catching 2nd gear almost immediately and the gear changes are easier - Was his report. Standing along side the track I immediately noticed a stronger fuel smell.

So -- At this time I can now validate my recommendation -- Flash the ECU with the Graves full exhaust file and give Her a rip - Post back your impressions for the benefit of others here !!

The demo unit we used as a test mule is all stock with the exception of modifying the stock can.

FUN Times -- -- Let Her RIP .. .. :)
 
#16 ·
That sounds like my exact experience with the Weller system. Even at idle it sounded different, that is before I added the exhaust, that was just stock exhaust with baffle removed. Even if it didn't change horsepower or torque, which it did, it still would run way better than the stock tune.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I noticed a difference in the Idle and sound going from Graves Full Exhaust Flash to the Unrestricted Flash. I did this on two machines.
My previous outing was with the Graves Full Exhaust Flash, this last weekend I had the unrestricted flash, I was tempted to reflash and compare but didn't want to go back to the stock fan on/off set points.
My Bazzaz software was not cooperating and I wanted to play :<(

Something I forgot to mention, The ugly off idle hesitation was almost gone on the Full Exh Flash, it's really bad on the Unrestricted flash.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I can defiantly hear a difference. more aggressive .... . cant wait to get her back out this weekend...

Unrestricted Image at Idle and Rev (CAT and Baffle removed)


Graves Full Image at Idle and Rev (CAT and Baffle removed)
 
#21 ·
the image is for a better flowing full exhaust system from Graves...... so you are likely right.. it will be running rich with just the baffle and CAT removed... Slightly rich is ok as long as I reap some benefits. I wish I had someone close with a full exhaust system to see the difference in the two........ i'd hate to drop $1,400 and only get a little bit better from this hollowed stock out system....
 
#23 ·
no number for the guy who rips apart the CAT honey comb to hollow out the stock exhaust.LOL.... I'm imaging numbers are around slip-on..... . but im more into not just the flat HP gain... wondering whole picture.. like torque in low end, over all feel between the different scenarios.. I need to get out and play with this new Graves flash. just driving in my yard in 1st gear, I can tell it is a big improvement.. I did not feel that way with the unrestricted image .. Now it feels like it wants to get out from under me..... wife hates me right now for all the tracks in the yard...
 
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#24 · (Edited)
BTW.... I really really like the folks at Weller.... but the fact that I get to play with the Graves ECU image first...makes me want to consider the Graves full system when Im ready..
 
#26 ·
Unrestricted flash with stock exhaust = 13.8? then Graves Full flash with Full Grave Exhaust = 12.5?
 
#33 · (Edited)
Wonder how big a difference there is in the graves Full Exhaust Tune vs the Slip On..we cant see the differnce, so I guess we can only estimate the feel...... I ran the full exhaust tune today with my hallowed out stock....loved it.. but engine was pretty hot and my hollowed out stock is loud...... I stopped after a pretty tough climb and turned my engine off to take a look around..... coolant started spilling out.. I have to remember to keep my key on so the fan can cool off the engine.... Graves needs to lower the fan engagement to lower temp like Weller and other flashes.... Im going to flash mine to slip on image and run it on some trails this weekend to see if there is a "feel" difference..that I can tell... Then I'm looking at the Trinity Slip on.. hoping it sounds better than stock...personally I dont think it will offer much more performance than the hallowed out stock, but if the performance is that same or better and the sound is better, than Im ok with that...... Im personally keeping it to slip on type exhausts because Im looking at a turbo set up at 6-7 psi maybe in the future and if I keep the slip on.. the one Im looking at can reuse these slip ons..
 
#35 ·
I do have the FT bench kit... playing with the pre configured files before I start messing with my own...
 
#36 · (Edited)
Ran all day last sunday with Slip on image.. I couldnt tell much of a difference with the stock hollowed out exhaust.. but I just put on the Trinity Slip on and now have a slight lag (sputter.. asking for gas) when initially pressing the gas.... I took out the ecu and re flashed to Full Exhaust image.. now the lag is gone...
 
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#37 ·
I got a few Tuning questions I bought the DMC full system and did a Graves flash from a dealer in Oregon and now the machine will not run good at all when cold at all and will die if I blip the throttle. I took the ECU back to the dealer and told me they flashed it for the full system has anyone had this issue? Also a buddy bought a new YXZ in at Florence Yamaha not the dealer that flashed mine stock he was just as fast as my flashed with full system YXZ he did a slip on and same flash and will blow my doors off all his work was done at Florence.
 
#39 · (Edited)
defiantly something wrong with your flash... did you run it with stock flash and full DMC system before flashing to Graves? I'd not run it hard because the full exhaust and stock tune will make it lean, but will give you idea of starting point..... try slip on graves image.. too...
 
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