[RobBeck]

Hoping to get the last tuning piece of the puzzle sorted so I can get my GYTR turbo kit installed soon, I am tired of having boxes of parts gather and not getting to enjoy them. The problem is that the kit has undergone some changes and will likely need some custom tuning due to some tweaks to the kit, such as:

1) using the Gen 2 GT2554R turbo on the Gen 1 (massaged flange/collector) manifold. With the boost coming on earlier, this could possibly leave some to be desired with the tuning on the Gen 1 GYTR Turbo ECM? I have heard that both the Gen 1 and Gen 2 GYTR Turbo ECM's are basically the same tune, but this is not 100%.
2) using a bellmouth turbo outlet to v-band to 3" to 2.5" custom exhaust (using KRX Trinity Stage 5 full 2.5" through muffler with YXZ mount bracket). Likely the bigger component to lead to the absolute need for custom tuning, but desired to keep backpressure at the lowest possible levels while providing optimum boost response.
3) further massaging to the Internal wastegate as I've heard the smaller units (such as the GT2554R) with very free flowing exhaust can lead to boost creep issues. If anything this will help stabilize tuning and keep boost control effective.
4) using the Gen 2 water to air radiator (from the YFZ450R). This should not really affect tuning and rather stabilize IATs.

Some tuning aids that will be in place:
1) AEM WBO2 to give some visibility of A/F.
2) AEM boost gauge/controller. Likely will not touch boost for a long while.

Initially I plan to get it together and monitor AFR to see how it looks and the machine feels, but based on my reading custom tuning will be eminent mainly because of the exhaust. I am not sure if this is mostly because of tuning around boost creep (with exhaust), or if the machine will just run leaner with the exhaust even with stable boost control.

Ultimately if tuning is in the near future then I am trying to determine if the FTECU is something that is manageable. I do of course have the GYTR Turbo kit (Gen 1) ECM to start, so it seems that will get tuning fairly close. From there all I feel that needs to be done is ensuring that boost control is effective (ie. 6-7psi) throughout the power band even in the taller gears and that the A/F is reasonable and rich. I am really not trying to get TOO crazy or aggressive with the tuning at all, more so want something reliable and to minimize exhaust backpressure (on the turbo, engine, etc) while being as responsive as possible.

Honestly I'd MUCH prefer just getting a tune from a big name and calling it a day, but am concerned for myself (and for them lol) that it will be a huge undertaking to get this right, which means I'd constantly be mailing my ECM back and forth. With that I am considering just getting the FTECU and attempting to modify the original GYTR Turbo Kit ECM file as needed (minimally).

Anyone out there have any input?

Thanks,
Rob

 

[leadmic]

FTecu will work but there is a steep learning curve. Why not it to a professional dyno tuner and be done with it?

 

[RobBeck]

FTecu will work but there is a steep learning curve. Why not it to a professional dyno tuner and be done with it?

You mean ship the entire machine? Seems like a significant effort/cost if so, as I am in the midwest and I am not aware of really much of anyone tuning YXZ's anywhere around here. Worse yet even if did go through with all of that with a long distance shipment, what if in the actual real world the tune still isn't great? Would get really expensive, really quick, if it wasn't a bullseye the first shot. Dyno tuning is neat and a great way to get a nice looking power curve at WOT, but usually is highly lacking in dialing in much with the general drivability. Being mainly a woods/trail setup, drivability needs to be pretty well dialed in. Although the drivability maybe pretty well dialed in as it is, or without much/any effort if any at all, and most of the help needed with the fueling only if the exhaust mods are done. That said I've considered just running the standard exhaust for a while to get a good feel for how the machine is intended to be fueled (as GYTR intended for the turbo kit) and then adding the exhaust stuff later and seeing how it affects it.

I think the only solid option would be to either ship the ECM back and forth, potentially over and over, or go with some sort of tuner (or don't run the exhaust on the kit). I do have a local dyno that I could get some time on, but being able to make some changes (fairly quickly) would be needed.

Do you have (or know anyone with) any firsthand experience with the FTecu?

 

[YumaYXZ]

As you said......
"That said I've considered just running the standard exhaust for a while to get a good feel for how the machine is
intended to be fueled (as GYTR intended for the turbo kit) and then adding the exhaust stuff later and seeing how it
affects it"

This seems to me to be the way to go. Whoever put the kit together has done what you are looking for.
Maybe run it that way and see if you really need whatever the other exhaust would give you.

Wouldn't someone like Alba have the experience with all their dyno time to lead you in the right direction if you need it?

Just ideas....

 

[RobBeck]

As you said......
"That said I've considered just running the standard exhaust for a while to get a good feel for how the machine is
intended to be fueled (as GYTR intended for the turbo kit) and then adding the exhaust stuff later and seeing how it
affects it"

This seems to me to be the way to go. Whoever put the kit together has done what you are looking for.
Maybe run it that way and see if you really need whatever the other exhaust would give you.

Wouldn't someone like Alba have the experience with all their dyno time to lead you in the right direction if you need it?

Just ideas....

I spoke with Weller, albeit a while back, got the vibe they would not really want to touch it with a 10' pole no matter what. I completely understand, tuning is a big responsibility, and it is tough to do remotely especially without the proper logging feedback. They also maybe better off allocating their support efforts to their own turbo system, rather than some guys "one-off".

I did speak with Alba a couple times, kind of got the same vibe, but a bit more positive in that they have something that could get me going. However that would be without any real certainty it would be good, without again proper data acquisition and logging feedback (for the custom exhaust). I do get it in that it is kind of a shot in the dark, and could take some trial and error. I got the feeling that the tuning between the turbos (Gen 1 vs. Gen 2) is not as much of an issue (ie. Map sensor could compensate for quicker spool), and more so the issue is keeping the boost stable with the aftermarket exhaust (meanwhile keeping the fuel mixture rich enough to keep the motor alive).

I do think if I kept the typical bolt on aftermarket exhaust systems Alba would have a better handle on it, but using the very free flowing custom exhaust seems to be what is throwing the monkey wrench in the outcome being a sure thing. Some of the weariness maybe due to the probability/fear of boost creep that may occur in the process of adding a very free flowing custom exhaust, and having the risk of trying to tune around it. However this should be alleviated by the internal wastegate massaging, will not really know how much (if any) creep exist until it's together and can monitor the boost under varying scenarios.

Rob

 

[leadmic]

Why would you have to ship it? You don't have a tuner in driving distance you could use? A lot of tune shops can tune the YXZ.

 

[KraftWerksJason]

If you already have a ECU with somewhat good boosted tune in it why not just grab a PC5 and the corresponding wideband from Dynojet and just smooth out the fueling with that? The PTI version will allow you to tune for boost and as long as the ECU has the correct timing in it for whatever boost you are currently running it should be very quick and easy.

 

[RobBeck]

Why would you have to ship it? You don't have a tuner in driving distance you could use? A lot of tune shops can tune the YXZ.

I'm in St. Louis, MO area. I am not aware of any YXZ tuners in the midwest, at all, but I also have not looked too hard either? I haven't because I suspect there are not any, this is everything BUT YXZ territory around here lol.

 

[RobBeck]

If you already have a ECU with somewhat good boosted tune in it why not just grab a PC5 and the corresponding wideband from Dynojet and just smooth out the fueling with that? The PTI version will allow you to tune for boost and as long as the ECU has the correct timing in it for whatever boost you are currently running it should be very quick and easy.

This is a good suggestion, considering my GYTR Turbo ECM should be pretty close on the tune. While I'd prefer it to be flash only, for simplicity sake it could be the way to go for me. I was actually beginning to look into that setup last night...

 

[KraftWerksJason]

This is a good suggestion, considering my GYTR Turbo ECM should be pretty close on the tune. While I'd prefer it to be flash only, for simplicity sake it could be the way to go for me. I was actually beginning to look into that setup last night...

Would be the simplest way especially since I am pretty sure that ECU has a lock on it so it might prove challenging to get into it and make proper correction.

 

[leadmic]

I'm sure there are, maybe someone will post up with a reputable one. With the choice to not go with a standard known kit, taking it to a tuner is probably your safest, cheapest way out. Unless you want to learn how to tune yourself and use the FTecu. Just remember if you don't get it right your engine is toast.

 

[RobBeck]

Would be the simplest way especially since I am pretty sure that ECU has a lock on it so it might prove challenging to get into it and make proper correction.

Here I’ve been thinking FTecu worked with the GYTR ECU, you sure that’s not the case?

 

[RobBeck]

I'm sure there are, maybe someone will post up with a reputable one. With the choice to not go with a standard known kit, taking it to a tuner is probably your safest, cheapest way out. Unless you want to learn how to tune yourself and use the FTecu. Just remember if you don't get it right your engine is toast.

If the FTecu is at all friendly to use, all I’d need to do is fatten up some areas with the exhaust installed, so they say. Shouldn’t need to do anything with the standard exhaust. I’m not tweaking timing or raising boost, at least not anytime soon. Should be pretty harmless, but need a tool that is fairly intuitive and works with the GYTR ECU.

 

[leadmic]

Well, good luck to you and I hope it all works out OK for you. Post back and let us know how it went.

 

[RobBeck]

Well, good luck to you and I hope it all works out OK for you. Post back and let us know how it went.

Will try to call FTecu and see if they even support the GYTR turbo ecu, then pick their brain on the interface, tomorrow. If sounds bad will prob just go through a pro tuner. Until I figure it out prob will just put it together with the stock exhaust for a while to stop the mental anguish.

 

[Dpayne]

From my understanding, FTECU isn't very supportive in this market. They will sell you the cable, license , and software and you will have to figure it out with little help. If you're only wanting 6-7 lbs of boost then factory exhaust will be fine and the PCV will work fine to smooth out the rest.

 

[RobBeck]

From my understanding, FTECU isn't very supportive in this market. They will sell you the cable, license , and software and you will have to figure it out with little help. If you're only wanting 6-7 lbs of boost then factory exhaust will be fine and the PCV will work fine to smooth out the rest.

Pretty convinced that the stock exhaust is what I'll use, short term, and feel out the A/F and drivability. If it feels more than enough potent maybe I'll just leave well enough alone? If not next up go to the custom exhaust and see how it goes from there, but it is entirely possible that raising boost a smidge (maybe even more and to injectors/etc) could go from there long term.

Found this vid which is a budget build similar to the GYTR kit, but think he may have been using the OE ECU (???) with the injector swap to even further complicate the tuning process:

It likely was a huge struggle above as there was a lot of changes to work through, but can't help but to think if it is possible to get into the GYTR Turbo ECU that minor fueling revisions (especially on OE injectors) would be quite a bit easier. It is a shame not many seem to have much experience with making even the most minor of tuning changes in this market, but that could be due to a very poor flash tool interface that we have available too.

I'm not entirely sold on the piggy PCV setup, but it could be the best answer when said and done.

 

[Dpayne]

Yes I've watched that video on sxsblog. He was using the oem ecu with FTECU. I dont think he got it tuned quite right until they switched to a motec ecu

 

[RobBeck]

Yes I've watched that video on sxsblog. He was using the oem ecu with FTECU. I dont think he got it tuned quite right until they switched to a motec ecu

I did see that he eventually went to a Motec, many do when they are getting to that really nutty space of making power and for many reasons. But yeah also starting with the OE ECU would be a HUGE bear, it surely has zero logic for MAP based tuning greater than 0psi in it whatsoever, and it may not even have the potential to tune a turbo setup correctly either? Whereas utilizing the GYTR Turbo ECU as a starting point likely already has thousands of hours of professional turbo tuning established as a baseline.

 

[Dpayne]

I've ran into that same sort of problem. I run a Kraftwerks supercharger and nobody supports those except Kraftwerks that I've found. I wanted to tune with something other than the PCV but it seems that the only option is a stand alone ecu and that's more money than I want to spend.