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Installing GYTR Gen 1 Turbo kit with some tweaks, FTECU or Big Name tuning?

22861 Views 149 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  RobBeck, 
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Hoping to get the last tuning piece of the puzzle sorted so I can get my GYTR turbo kit installed soon, I am tired of having boxes of parts gather and not getting to enjoy them. The problem is that the kit has undergone some changes and will likely need some custom tuning due to some tweaks to the kit, such as:

1) using the Gen 2 GT2554R turbo on the Gen 1 (massaged flange/collector) manifold. With the boost coming on earlier, this could possibly leave some to be desired with the tuning on the Gen 1 GYTR Turbo ECM? I have heard that both the Gen 1 and Gen 2 GYTR Turbo ECM's are basically the same tune, but this is not 100%.
2) using a bellmouth turbo outlet to v-band to 3" to 2.5" custom exhaust (using KRX Trinity Stage 5 full 2.5" through muffler with YXZ mount bracket). Likely the bigger component to lead to the absolute need for custom tuning, but desired to keep backpressure at the lowest possible levels while providing optimum boost response.
3) further massaging to the Internal wastegate as I've heard the smaller units (such as the GT2554R) with very free flowing exhaust can lead to boost creep issues. If anything this will help stabilize tuning and keep boost control effective.
4) using the Gen 2 water to air radiator (from the YFZ450R). This should not really affect tuning and rather stabilize IATs.

Some tuning aids that will be in place:
1) AEM WBO2 to give some visibility of A/F.
2) AEM boost gauge/controller. Likely will not touch boost for a long while.

Initially I plan to get it together and monitor AFR to see how it looks and the machine feels, but based on my reading custom tuning will be eminent mainly because of the exhaust. I am not sure if this is mostly because of tuning around boost creep (with exhaust), or if the machine will just run leaner with the exhaust even with stable boost control.

Ultimately if tuning is in the near future then I am trying to determine if the FTECU is something that is manageable. I do of course have the GYTR Turbo kit (Gen 1) ECM to start, so it seems that will get tuning fairly close. From there all I feel that needs to be done is ensuring that boost control is effective (ie. 6-7psi) throughout the power band even in the taller gears and that the A/F is reasonable and rich. I am really not trying to get TOO crazy or aggressive with the tuning at all, more so want something reliable and to minimize exhaust backpressure (on the turbo, engine, etc) while being as responsive as possible.

Honestly I'd MUCH prefer just getting a tune from a big name and calling it a day, but am concerned for myself (and for them lol) that it will be a huge undertaking to get this right, which means I'd constantly be mailing my ECM back and forth. With that I am considering just getting the FTECU and attempting to modify the original GYTR Turbo Kit ECM file as needed (minimally).

Anyone out there have any input?

Thanks,
Rob
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leadmic said:
FTecu will work but there is a steep learning curve. Why not it to a professional dyno tuner and be done with it?
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You mean ship the entire machine? Seems like a significant effort/cost if so, as I am in the midwest and I am not aware of really much of anyone tuning YXZ's anywhere around here. Worse yet even if did go through with all of that with a long distance shipment, what if in the actual real world the tune still isn't great? Would get really expensive, really quick, if it wasn't a bullseye the first shot. Dyno tuning is neat and a great way to get a nice looking power curve at WOT, but usually is highly lacking in dialing in much with the general drivability. Being mainly a woods/trail setup, drivability needs to be pretty well dialed in. Although the drivability maybe pretty well dialed in as it is, or without much/any effort if any at all, and most of the help needed with the fueling only if the exhaust mods are done. That said I've considered just running the standard exhaust for a while to get a good feel for how the machine is intended to be fueled (as GYTR intended for the turbo kit) and then adding the exhaust stuff later and seeing how it affects it.

I think the only solid option would be to either ship the ECM back and forth, potentially over and over, or go with some sort of tuner (or don't run the exhaust on the kit). I do have a local dyno that I could get some time on, but being able to make some changes (fairly quickly) would be needed.

Do you have (or know anyone with) any firsthand experience with the FTecu?
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YumaYXZ said:
As you said......
"That said I've considered just running the standard exhaust for a while to get a good feel for how the machine is
intended to be fueled (as GYTR intended for the turbo kit) and then adding the exhaust stuff later and seeing how it
affects it"

This seems to me to be the way to go. Whoever put the kit together has done what you are looking for.
Maybe run it that way and see if you really need whatever the other exhaust would give you.

Wouldn't someone like Alba have the experience with all their dyno time to lead you in the right direction if you need it?

Just ideas....
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I spoke with Weller, albeit a while back, got the vibe they would not really want to touch it with a 10' pole no matter what. I completely understand, tuning is a big responsibility, and it is tough to do remotely especially without the proper logging feedback. They also maybe better off allocating their support efforts to their own turbo system, rather than some guys "one-off".

I did speak with Alba a couple times, kind of got the same vibe, but a bit more positive in that they have something that could get me going. However that would be without any real certainty it would be good, without again proper data acquisition and logging feedback (for the custom exhaust). I do get it in that it is kind of a shot in the dark, and could take some trial and error. I got the feeling that the tuning between the turbos (Gen 1 vs. Gen 2) is not as much of an issue (ie. Map sensor could compensate for quicker spool), and more so the issue is keeping the boost stable with the aftermarket exhaust (meanwhile keeping the fuel mixture rich enough to keep the motor alive).

I do think if I kept the typical bolt on aftermarket exhaust systems Alba would have a better handle on it, but using the very free flowing custom exhaust seems to be what is throwing the monkey wrench in the outcome being a sure thing. Some of the weariness maybe due to the probability/fear of boost creep that may occur in the process of adding a very free flowing custom exhaust, and having the risk of trying to tune around it. However this should be alleviated by the internal wastegate massaging, will not really know how much (if any) creep exist until it's together and can monitor the boost under varying scenarios.

Rob
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leadmic said:
Why would you have to ship it? You don't have a tuner in driving distance you could use? A lot of tune shops can tune the YXZ.
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I'm in St. Louis, MO area. I am not aware of any YXZ tuners in the midwest, at all, but I also have not looked too hard either? I haven't because I suspect there are not any, this is everything BUT YXZ territory around here lol.
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KraftWerksJason said:
If you already have a ECU with somewhat good boosted tune in it why not just grab a PC5 and the corresponding wideband from Dynojet and just smooth out the fueling with that? The PTI version will allow you to tune for boost and as long as the ECU has the correct timing in it for whatever boost you are currently running it should be very quick and easy.
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This is a good suggestion, considering my GYTR Turbo ECM should be pretty close on the tune. While I'd prefer it to be flash only, for simplicity sake it could be the way to go for me. I was actually beginning to look into that setup last night...
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KraftWerksJason said:
Would be the simplest way especially since I am pretty sure that ECU has a lock on it so it might prove challenging to get into it and make proper correction.
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Here I’ve been thinking FTecu worked with the GYTR ECU, you sure that’s not the case?
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leadmic said:
I'm sure there are, maybe someone will post up with a reputable one. With the choice to not go with a standard known kit, taking it to a tuner is probably your safest, cheapest way out. Unless you want to learn how to tune yourself and use the FTecu. Just remember if you don't get it right your engine is toast.
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If the FTecu is at all friendly to use, all I’d need to do is fatten up some areas with the exhaust installed, so they say. Shouldn’t need to do anything with the standard exhaust. I’m not tweaking timing or raising boost, at least not anytime soon. Should be pretty harmless, but need a tool that is fairly intuitive and works with the GYTR ECU.
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leadmic said:
Well, good luck to you and I hope it all works out OK for you. Post back and let us know how it went.
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Will try to call FTecu and see if they even support the GYTR turbo ecu, then pick their brain on the interface, tomorrow. If sounds bad will prob just go through a pro tuner. Until I figure it out prob will just put it together with the stock exhaust for a while to stop the mental anguish.
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Dpayne said:
From my understanding, FTECU isn't very supportive in this market. They will sell you the cable, license , and software and you will have to figure it out with little help. If you're only wanting 6-7 lbs of boost then factory exhaust will be fine and the PCV will work fine to smooth out the rest.
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Pretty convinced that the stock exhaust is what I'll use, short term, and feel out the A/F and drivability. If it feels more than enough potent maybe I'll just leave well enough alone? If not next up go to the custom exhaust and see how it goes from there, but it is entirely possible that raising boost a smidge (maybe even more and to injectors/etc) could go from there long term.

Found this vid which is a budget build similar to the GYTR kit, but think he may have been using the OE ECU (???) with the injector swap to even further complicate the tuning process:

It likely was a huge struggle above as there was a lot of changes to work through, but can't help but to think if it is possible to get into the GYTR Turbo ECU that minor fueling revisions (especially on OE injectors) would be quite a bit easier. It is a shame not many seem to have much experience with making even the most minor of tuning changes in this market, but that could be due to a very poor flash tool interface that we have available too.

I'm not entirely sold on the piggy PCV setup, but it could be the best answer when said and done.
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Dpayne said:
Yes I've watched that video on sxsblog. He was using the oem ecu with FTECU. I dont think he got it tuned quite right until they switched to a motec ecu
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I did see that he eventually went to a Motec, many do when they are getting to that really nutty space of making power and for many reasons. But yeah also starting with the OE ECU would be a HUGE bear, it surely has zero logic for MAP based tuning greater than 0psi in it whatsoever, and it may not even have the potential to tune a turbo setup correctly either? Whereas utilizing the GYTR Turbo ECU as a starting point likely already has thousands of hours of professional turbo tuning established as a baseline.
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Dpayne said:
I've ran into that same sort of problem. I run a Kraftwerks supercharger and nobody supports those except Kraftwerks that I've found. I wanted to tune with something other than the PCV but it seems that the only option is a stand alone ecu and that's more money than I want to spend.
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Surely the Supercharger kits have some flash work too? I get the PCV piggyback can work for cleaning up the fueling, but adding FI to an NA ECU surely would require a lot more work with the backend Flashing.
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Dpayne said:
You can actually add all the fuel with the Power Commander. It has its own MAP sensor so it sees boost. I also have the autotune box. It's just a pile of stuff to have added in. Kraftwerks now uses the Power Vision to tune their kits.
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Fueling is only so much. The OE ECU was designed for an NA engine, timing/fueling/etc all a part of that. Adding FI and using NA timing tables seems a bit odd, but there again I am not pro tuner and maybe it works ok with Supercharged FI.
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Dpayne said:
Rob, from my understanding, the stock timing table is pretty soft. It can possibly work with 12psi boost with the right conditions and fuel. What a gamble with no knock sensors ,huh?
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Open loop and no knock sensors, could've done without that lol.
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Just got off the phone with FTecu, the guy was pretty sure the ECU's are actually the same (physically) from OE to GYTR, but he wasn't 100%. Can anyone confirm this? I'd really hate to buy the FTecu setup and find I can't use my GYTR Turbo ECU, but would also be pretty cool to be able to flash either ECU (OE or GYTR) and use the other ECU when making changes on the bench (I realize would need a license for both).

EDIT: The part #'s do look the same, attached my '19 SS vs. Gen 1 GYTR ECU, so likely just the same aside the flash.

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spottsjd said:
I'm also looking into all of this as well. I have the full base gen 1 GYTR kit installed, and really want to just pull the trigger on the Alba stage 3 with injectors.

But, I also want to be able to have the machine custom dyno tuned down the road, as I build and inevitably want more power and upgrade.change components.

I need to call FT and Alba when life is less busy, but I've been collecting questions:
1. Flashtune has a yxz turbo tune, but charges an extra 100 dollars for it? Who's tune is this? Is it any good? Is it editable? Could it be [email protected]? map for turbo charge! for yxz1000r non spotshift ?
2. Does Alba just use FT software with their own custom map? Could this map be purchased as a FT file so I don't have to ship ECUs? map for turbo charge! for yxz1000r non spotshift ? - Page 3
3. Are some maps locked for reading? Is the factory GYTR map locked, or is it editable? Does any of this locking prevent us from purchasing Alba's ECU tune, registering our ECU with FT and reading/editing the map with FT? Am I not allowed to FT my own ECU after Alba does it without wiping it completely, leaving me with no factory tune to read and no alba tune if I want to FT? I don't want to scam anyone, but I want full control of my system, and not be vendor locked.
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A bunch of good questions. If I could rest assured that mapping would be good by just paying for one, man I'd love nothing more. But it seems like it is going to be a large crap shoot that will likely cause everyone pain and agony over the long term trying to ship back and forth. For this reason, plus my desire to make some custom tweaks, it seems the only way to do this is to just try to use the tools available and DIY.

At the moment I have the '19 OEM SS ECU, a Gen 1 GYTR Turbo SS ECU, and have ordered a Gen 2 GYTR Turbo SS ECU. It is doubtful the latter will come and more than likely the order will be cancelled and refunded, etc.; but the plan here is hopefully get it. Then get the FTecu, get licenses for all of my ECU's, and just hopefully download all of them and tweak them as I go. I may pay for that FTecu Turbo tune as well, but it could just be the same as the GYTR Turbo tune. Guess will have to order it and (hopefully) compare files to get that answer.

I am guessing that Alba and maybe some others use FTecu as well. Not sure if they are able to lock them though? I supposed they would if they could and I would not blame them at all for it; but no idea if anyone knows that answer. I also am guessing that the GYTR ECU's are not locked in anyway and have maps that can be downloaded and tweaked just like the OE ECU's.

Anyway I think you will find that there is not much sharing around here when it comes to any of this stuff, kind of a bummer for the YXZ peeps, but maybe this thread will help generate some long needed convo and info sharing.

Short term goal is to just have a responsive and very safe tune, but may get more and more aggressive as time goes on. Having some info on tuning this machine could make a tremendous difference, as not everything is a cookie cutter scenario.

Rob
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fortrdb said:
I can't answer a lot of the questions, but one I can is relative to the licensing of the ECU and re-programming with a different FT set-up. You will have to buy another license for each programmer you intend to use. The license maps to the programmer/ECU combination. So even if Alba is using FT, the license for your ECU they obtain will not work for you on a different FT programmer set-up.
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All yet another reason to just start with DIY and gather your own empire. Plus if ever want to revert back to whatever map prior, etc. Just a huge huge headache.
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spottsjd said:
The extra license and cost wouldn't bother me, but I'm pretty sure I read that if an ECU is tied to a different license, you have to wipe it to get it tied to another license, thus losing me the ALBA tune and the Factory tune. THATS the horror show I want to avoid, otherwise I'd pay alba the $900 for their injectors+stage3 tune and ship it, pay FT the 500 for the license and hardware, and have a known good base tune for my setup and tune as needed/if I find a shop to fine tune.

As it stands with what I know, I'm probably just going to get the tune+injectors+Slip-on from Alba, and eventually do the Engine Build + AFR + Boost controller and forget about FT. I love customization and tweaking things, but I don't think it's to be.
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Yeah that is a real bummer that you can't make any improvements to Mapping that ever had any prior work (has been tied to another FTecu) if you should decide to get one too, PLUS lose your original files for additional salt in the wound. If the tuner ever went under, stopped support, etc.; guess you'd have to get another ECU over it. The only way to really play it safe is to just not touch anything it seems, or do the same cookie cutter others do and still cross your fingers it is good.
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leadmic said:
The license is tied to the cable and the ECU and the account. That being said you can have more than one license and ECU on the same cable and account. I have tuned several friends' ECU with my account and cable. It just costs $100 for each new license and it has to be bought through my account.
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You have any turbo maps to your account?
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spottsjd said:
Some good info. This is all looking to boil down to buying a canned tune, or find a tuner with a spare day to fudge around with FTECU without any base map to work from (unless FTECU can read the GYTR tune, which the whole chatter around "no turbo tunes" sounds like it might not.
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I'll have the Gen 1 GYTR Turbo (SS) ECU accessibility via FTecu answer in a couple weeks. Hopefully this Gen 2 GYTR Turbo (SS) ECU order comes through also then I will be getting that one too. Just got my Gen 2 GYTR GT2554R Turbo (to add to my Gen 1 GYTR Turbo kit) so the Gen 2 GYTR ECU could be a bit more refined baseline.

What I thought I heard from FTecu was that their Turbo Tune was likely the Gen 1 GYTR Turbo tune, but could have some tweaks (no promises). Unfortunately they could not say a lot about its origination or for what it could be a good baseline for, but he did say he thought for sure that it if anything it would not be a ground up turbo tune when they'd already be able to use the GYTR tune as a baseline. He also made it seem like it doesn't matter if it is the OE or GYTR ECU, their tool should be able to work with it the same.
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Looks like my GYTR Turbo Gen 2 ECU (for SS) was amazingly an order-able item and has now shipped. Will be ordering the FTecu in the next couple days, and will thereafter find out if it will work with either of my GYTR Turbo ECUs (Gen 1 and 2).
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