Yamaha YXZ Forums banner
Cancel

Installing GYTR Gen 1 Turbo kit with some tweaks, FTECU or Big Name tuning?

22861 Views 149 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  RobBeck, 
R
Hoping to get the last tuning piece of the puzzle sorted so I can get my GYTR turbo kit installed soon, I am tired of having boxes of parts gather and not getting to enjoy them. The problem is that the kit has undergone some changes and will likely need some custom tuning due to some tweaks to the kit, such as:

1) using the Gen 2 GT2554R turbo on the Gen 1 (massaged flange/collector) manifold. With the boost coming on earlier, this could possibly leave some to be desired with the tuning on the Gen 1 GYTR Turbo ECM? I have heard that both the Gen 1 and Gen 2 GYTR Turbo ECM's are basically the same tune, but this is not 100%.
2) using a bellmouth turbo outlet to v-band to 3" to 2.5" custom exhaust (using KRX Trinity Stage 5 full 2.5" through muffler with YXZ mount bracket). Likely the bigger component to lead to the absolute need for custom tuning, but desired to keep backpressure at the lowest possible levels while providing optimum boost response.
3) further massaging to the Internal wastegate as I've heard the smaller units (such as the GT2554R) with very free flowing exhaust can lead to boost creep issues. If anything this will help stabilize tuning and keep boost control effective.
4) using the Gen 2 water to air radiator (from the YFZ450R). This should not really affect tuning and rather stabilize IATs.

Some tuning aids that will be in place:
1) AEM WBO2 to give some visibility of A/F.
2) AEM boost gauge/controller. Likely will not touch boost for a long while.

Initially I plan to get it together and monitor AFR to see how it looks and the machine feels, but based on my reading custom tuning will be eminent mainly because of the exhaust. I am not sure if this is mostly because of tuning around boost creep (with exhaust), or if the machine will just run leaner with the exhaust even with stable boost control.

Ultimately if tuning is in the near future then I am trying to determine if the FTECU is something that is manageable. I do of course have the GYTR Turbo kit (Gen 1) ECM to start, so it seems that will get tuning fairly close. From there all I feel that needs to be done is ensuring that boost control is effective (ie. 6-7psi) throughout the power band even in the taller gears and that the A/F is reasonable and rich. I am really not trying to get TOO crazy or aggressive with the tuning at all, more so want something reliable and to minimize exhaust backpressure (on the turbo, engine, etc) while being as responsive as possible.

Honestly I'd MUCH prefer just getting a tune from a big name and calling it a day, but am concerned for myself (and for them lol) that it will be a huge undertaking to get this right, which means I'd constantly be mailing my ECM back and forth. With that I am considering just getting the FTECU and attempting to modify the original GYTR Turbo Kit ECM file as needed (minimally).

Anyone out there have any input?

Thanks,
Rob
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
1 - 14 of 150 Posts
Y
As you said......
"That said I've considered just running the standard exhaust for a while to get a good feel for how the machine is
intended to be fueled (as GYTR intended for the turbo kit) and then adding the exhaust stuff later and seeing how it
affects it"

This seems to me to be the way to go. Whoever put the kit together has done what you are looking for.
Maybe run it that way and see if you really need whatever the other exhaust would give you.

Wouldn't someone like Alba have the experience with all their dyno time to lead you in the right direction if you need it?

Just ideas....
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 2
Y
RobBeck said:
Looks like my GYTR Turbo Gen 2 ECU (for SS) was amazingly an order-able item and has now shipped. Will be ordering the FTecu in the next couple days, and will thereafter find out if it will work with either of my GYTR Turbo ECUs (Gen 1 and 2).
Click to expand...
Very good that it's gonna happen!
Been following this thread as I came across and purchased a used V1 kit for '19- later (in great condition) that does not have an ECU. Alba assures me that they can flash my stock 3 pedal ECU for it.
So all info in this thread is helpful to me. Thanks
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 2
Y
RobBeck said:
FTecu saga Weekly Updates:
9/9/22- Pinged again asking for any updates/ETA/or general good news since 1 month of making the top priority on the list. No reply.
Click to expand...
Unfortunate
Reply
Save
Like
Y
I wanna hit the “like” button, but I don’t.
Guessing that they are putting their time into what makes them $ and yxz probably isn’t it.
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Y
Right on Rob…. You didn’t need the shuck and jive along the way. Agreed
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Y
Hey Rob, by the way I’m doing my install now. What do you recommend for an A/F meter and where in the pipe before the muffler should it be?
Reply
Save
Like
Y
You’ve been more than patient! You sharing and documenting this experience helps others know who to do business with in the future.
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Y
Well, you tried. And good info on tuning would only help those in the future.
In my case, I’ve decided that since everything is working so well, I’m content.

This is not to say that things won’t happen in the future.

But the GYTR turbo is doing as promised as is the Alba tune. It all works perfectly so far. At 3800 feet and sea level.

Thanks again for all your efforts. Gotta be frustrating 🤨
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 2
Y
Since I have no idea and maybe one or both of you may….
How does someone like Alba create a tune and then install it in my stock ECU? Do they just have some programming tool that you guys can’t get or perhaps it is very expensive????

Just a curiosity. You guys are way past me on all this!
Reply
Save
Like
Y
Mystery and speculation abound. From my results, Alba has it figured out. Would be cool to KNOW their method.
Reply
Save
Like
Y
From my discussion with them I wouldn’t be surprised if your KRX aftermarket exhaust wouldn’t work with their stg. 2 tune.

When I was there dropping off my ECU for flash, it was clearly stated that I could use ANY open aftermarket exhaust with this tune. Not a big fan of the Trinity but bought it ONLY because that is what they tuned their stage 2 to and I was attempting to eliminate variables.

So here’s a question…..
Would afr values change because you took a muffler off? The readings are taken upstream from the muffler, right?
Reply
Save
Like
Y
spottsjd said:
These engines purely work on VE(Volumetric Efficiency), with zero feedback(AKA Closed loop tuning). In a VE system with zero feedback, every change to the engine's ability to ingest air and expel waste products changes the tuning. Basically, the "VE" coefficient is a guestamate of how good your intake, engine, and exhaust are at flowing air. Any change in the ability to pump air from the inlet to the outlet can't be sensed by the engine, and has to be tuned for. If you make any changes to anything outside of manifold air pressure or manifold air temperature, you need to modify your VE Coeficient to match.

This makes our systems "double dumb" because they not only try to simply approximate the volume of air entering the cylender though the measurement of air pressure and temperature and multiply that by a magic VE coefficient, but they don't have any ability to correct on the back end with AFR readings. In most cars(besides performance turbo cars), I'd call them "double smart" because they both directly measure the air volume with a MAF sensor, AND can correct for AFR on the back end by reading the exhaust. This is why you can throw a pod filter and a rattle can on your honda civic and not blow anything up, but you do that to a YXZ and, like Nate's old posts, end up "Scary lean" with the GYTR tune. The MAF sensor in the civic is directly measuring the volume of air enering the intake, AND if there's any weridness happening, the lambda sensor will catch it on the back end and correct it. Some factory turbo cars(apparently the mozdaspeed3 is one) is actually VE + Lambda, or a "single smart" system. If you have AFRs backing you up, the VE model isn't a problem.

Not to bitch about VE tuning models either, tons of success in the turbo racing world with them. All the guys who aftermarket turbo anything are using VE models now. It's mostly the lack of AFR compensation that's killing us on the Y.
Click to expand...
Nice explanation.
Reply
Save
Like
Y
spottsjd said:
I really don't think the bigger exhaust is going to do much at our boost levels. It will have an effect, and the effect will be to creep leaner than the current aftermarket sets, but I doubt it will be barely enough to tune about. Honestly, I think E0 vs E10 fuel will have a bigger impact on the tune than moving from aftermarket glass packed to straight giant pipes.
Click to expand...
I completely agree with this. If we were talking old school like I am, we’d be talking about carburetors and jetting (hate to oversimplify 😉).
And if the fueling was correct for a certain pipe, then you go to a less restrictive pipe, you may get a lean condition. But Fernando at Alba was emphatic that I could use any non restrictive slip on I wanted and that it would not be an issue.
So, while I agree that it may lean out a bit, you’d know from your afr, right? May be a problem you’d address only if it ends up being a problem.
Thanks for bearing with me guys….
Reply
Save
Like
Y
RobBeck said:
There is certainly the possibility that Alba's tune could be fueled well enough for my exhaust setup, but unfortunately he (Nate himself) did NOT seem to be so sure and he suggested that it could also very well just be a starting point. While I am sure the Alba tune would be a better place to start than the OE GYTR tune fueling wise; that GYTR collector, pipe, even with the Trinity exhaust is quite small/restrictive vs. what I am looking to do and so I likely will require more fueling even yet. But yes if you are using ANY aftermarket "slip-on" this means that you are using the standard GYTR collector and pipe, while only changing the muffler at that point, and this is the difference.

My exhaust setup is a cast SS Garrett 5-bolt flange to 3" v-band, 3" tapering to 2.5" at the muffler, then using the Trinity Stage 5 KRX muffler which is 2.5" ID (with yxz frame mount).
Click to expand...
Thanks for reminding me what you were going to do. I remembered the KRX muffler but didn’t recall the 3 to 2 1/2” setup.
👍🏻
Reply
Save
Like
  • Like
Reactions: 1
1 - 14 of 150 Posts
Yamaha YXZ Forums
YXZ Talk Forum is the largest online community for Yamaha YXZ 1000 fans. Discuss turbocharging, suspension, drive train, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
YXZ General Discussion YXZ Engine YXZ Drivetrain YXZ Pictures and Videos New Member Introduction
Top