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Discussion Starter #1
Ed here,
I'm In the process of suspension tuning the Yamaha right now and over the next few weeks. I set up suspensions on all off road vehicles myself. I DRIVE tune Dune cars to dez cars from your 100 hp SxS to ridiculous up to 1500 plus HP full size dune and or desert long travel cars. So Im pretty sure I have a clue to suspension set ups. Ask around.

I'm new on this Yamaha forum and I will offer free tips and info to help owners with there cars. I would like to see what kind of feed back I get get from Yamaha owners and I should sign up as a vender soon.
I am driver tuner and shock tuner! So I know what's in the shocks as well as How they drive. So, not a lot of time left over for the forums, but I will add info or help When I can. Hope that's more than fair.
I'm working on the stock 2.5 Foxes, as well as Walker Evans 2.5 Velocity 3 stage shocks.

Moto
 

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Ed here,
I'm In the process of suspension tuning the Yamaha right now and over the next few weeks. I set up suspensions on all off road vehicles myself. I DRIVE tune Dune cars to dez cars from your 100 hp SxS to ridiculous up to 1500 plus HP full size dune and or desert long travel cars. So Im pretty sure I have a clue to suspension set ups. Ask around.

I'm new on this Yamaha forum and I will offer free tips and info to help owners with there cars. I would like to see what kind of feed back I get get from Yamaha owners and I should sign up as a vender soon.
I am driver tuner and shock tuner! So I know what's in the shocks as well as How they drive. So, not a lot of time left over for the forums, but I will add info or help When I can. Hope that's more than fair.
I'm working on the stock 2.5 Foxes, as well as Walker Evans 2.5 Velocity 3 stage shocks.

Moto
I like your attitude! Keep us posted, and the forum will warm up to you quickly.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
First "simple" tip of the day

Fronts
Open your front rebound adjuster all the way open ( counterclock )
Open both hi and low speed adjuster all the way open ( counterclock )
Turn the small flat head screwdriver adjuster inward 4 to 6 full 180 turns

Rear
Turn your rebound adjusters all the way closed! ( clockwise ), then back out ( counter clock ) one click
Turn both hi and low speed adjusters all the way open. (Counter clock)

This is an easy starting point to make the car the softest and fly more level more of the time with its stock springs and valving.
Lots of variables with different drivers, including weights, of driver? Passenger and cargo. Do individual tuning from here will be a bit easier for the masses! Especially because you will only have one way to go on on the compression side! Don't even bother with rebound adjusters! They will only confuse you.
Just slowly firm it up to your taste. Only make one adjustment at a time on eather the front or rear so you know the outcome of the adjustment. Making more than one adjustment at a time will make it more difficult to know what made the car better or worse!

The WHY.
The front is under sprung, The front needs more spring to push it up and keep it up in the stroke so you can run it a bit lower travel, and use a bit more soft beginning valving.

The rear is over sprung. Probably so you can max out the 300 lb load limit and more in the rear with beer and munchies for a large party? Lol
The lower shock mounting point, and angles are far from ideal. The geometry makes it more difficult to match up valving and spring rates. But it's still doable.
With the car rear lifted, we backed off the spring collar till the springs became loose, the tighten back up only a 1/4 inch

Tip 2
If your a mostly solo driver? Or you weigh 100 lbs more than your passenger?
You should set your ride heights differently on the driver side as compared to the passenger side. And if your the twig, and your passenger out weighs you? Then you can compansate for this too.
Your car should run closer to level when your loaded. If your a big driver, your cheating yourself on your suspension on your side! Turn those spring collars downward to compansate some for your weight. You can even run the adjusters a bit firmer on the heavier side.

Moto
 

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What pre load are you running up front, I landed at a similar setup to this but had a harsh feel up front when the suspension would reach full droop, I slowed the rebound a little and it helped.
 

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Thanks for the great info. I havent messed with the front at all becuse I didn't know where to begin.

This set up sounds really close to what LSJohn was suggesting too. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Leverage!
Most people don't talk about it, because they don't understand it. The weight of your car on the corners isn't as important as the leverage it takes to move the shock and suspension. And we are talking rear suspension right now.
It is easier to move a shock and springs when you have "leverage odds" against it.

Perfect example is your dirt bike or quad. Look where the rear shock is placed on the swing arm ( a trailing arm ) ? Is it mounted out on the end of the swing arm near the axle?? No. The shock is smaller and mounted near the pivot point, or fulcrum point. So that the swing arm has leverage odds against the shock. The shock is shorter and the shaft moves only a small percent of the axle end of the swing arm. So you need firmer valving and higher spring rates as compared to if the shock was mounted out on the axle end of the shaft where you would need to lessen spring rates and valving considerably to allow the suspension movement that bike or quad requires.

If you look at the rear bottom shock mounting points of most (not all) long travel off road cars. You see the points are anywhere between the axle and or hub and pivot point. Not at a one to one odds point on top of the hub. Yes, there are some of these one to one odds set up around, and they do not work as well as having odds against the shock. Look a trophy truck! Or class 1 car. Or just look at any new motocross bike or quad.

On the Yamaha, The rear shock is actually mounted a little behind the hub. So the leverage point is worse! It's a negative. It gains a little back because the top mount is angled inward toward the car.
Example . When you carrie a gallon of milk, you carrie it at your side where it's pretty much a one to one odds with you. Now lift that Gallon of milk up and out in front of you at a 90 degree angle. The milk still weighs the same, but now that gallon has odds against your arm and it feels much heavier. Right?

One more thing to add is "friction". Friction slows everthing down. And makes the shock harder to move quickly. We want to drive that car "fast" and eat up every bump and rock and stump with ease? Well, it's more difficult for the shock to move "quickly" over those obstacles when it so close to even odds with wheel movement. Again, Its much easier for that shock to only move a lesser percentage of the wheel movement. It's not just valving and springs, but the shock friction is a larger factor now than if we had more odds against the shock.

So now we have to give up more spring and valving to let the shock move more easily over the rough, and firm up more later for the bigger hits.

Hope this makes sense for most of you
It sure doesn't make sense to quote Physics? Real life examples work much better

Moto
 

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I have heard the car acts totally different with a LT kit installed... Softer ride, and more controllable in flight as well.

SOoo, I am assuming the car will have "More Leverage" when it is wider... which means anyone considering a LT kit should wait on setting up their shocks, because it will act completely different...right?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have heard the car acts totally different with a LT kit installed... Softer ride, and more controllable in flight as well.

SOoo, I am assuming the car will have "More Leverage" when it is wider... which means anyone considering a LT kit should wait on setting up their shocks, because it will act completely different...right?
Safely said, yes.
But it depends on the kit builder? Is the builder using the stock upper mounts? Where will the bottom mounts be?

For example, for most of the Polaris XP 1000 long travel kits available, My valving recipes for the stock suspension still work fine with only front spring changes on some kits.
Because the rear trailing arms only moves rearward 1 inch. And The sideways change did not effect the leverage as much.

For the Yamaha, the frontward movement does not effect the leverage as much as the sideways will on both the front and rear.
In my current set up for stock, I have increased the front spring rates while decreased rear rates.

To answer you, yes, your suspension will be softer with the long travel and probably be a good idea to wait and tune it with the long travel. The front will definatly need higher spring rates to keep the front end up and faster rebound adjustments also
 

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Seems like the Yamaha suspension geometry design is inferior compared to wildcat or rzr xp trailing arm design.

Any guesses why would Yamaha do this when it's target market is high speed dunes and desert?
 

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Seems like the Yamaha suspension geometry design is inferior compared to wildcat or rzr xp trailing arm design.

Any guesses why would Yamaha do this when it's target market is high speed dunes and desert?
You could hardly call the YXZ suspension inferior, by this quote: Mike Colosimo "We did full cage,race seats,Parker pump,Raceline tires and wheels used the factory stock shock settings,no radios,no GPS, ,No spare parts and drove the shit out of for 2 days of racing in some of the worst conditions.Against 11 Polaris RZR race builds,and 45 other race vehicles in our heat"

They won the race:YXZ takes 1st in UTV Pro Class at SNORE Rage at the River
 

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You could hardly call the YXZ suspension inferior, by this quote: Mike Colosimo "We did full cage,race seats,Parker pump,Raceline tires and wheels used the factory stock shock settings,no radios,no GPS, ,No spare parts and drove the shit out of for 2 days of racing in some of the worst conditions.Against 11 Polaris RZR race builds,and 45 other race vehicles in our heat"

They won the race:YXZ takes 1st in UTV Pro Class at SNORE Rage at the River

No offense.. but I wasn't looking for some anecdotal story time quote ... I was asking OP who seems to be honest, knowledgeable /expert in this subject matter.
 

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YXZSS, You have to remember this is KALOP you are dealing with. He is the biggest cheerleader for RZR, he will tap a single persons point of view or opinion and consider it gospel unlike the rest of the free thinking people in the world. Not to mention he is quoting what Pound Sand said, who is probably used to full race trucks and all out racing builds..(Not a bash on pound sand) quite the opposite. i am sure PS could have built or designed better geometry but for what Yamaha has given us at what i think is a reasonable price..anyone can go out and race this machine with Minimum alterations.
 

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YXZSS, You have to remember this is KALOP you are dealing with. He is the biggest cheerleader for RZR, he will tap a single persons point of view or opinion and consider it gospel unlike the rest of the free thinking people in the world. Not to mention he is quoting what Pound Sand said, who is probably used to full race trucks and all out racing builds..(Not a bash on pound sand) quite the opposite. i am sure PS could have built or designed better geometry but for what Yamaha has given us at what i think is a reasonable price..anyone can go out and race this machine with Minimum alterations.
You're wrong again ... I don't own polaris and hate the company in general. I'm just trying to ask an experts opinion ... you guys go bugger off and quit turning every thread into BS. Geez
 

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No offense.. but I wasn't looking for some anecdotal story time quote ... I was asking OP who seems to be honest, knowledgeable /expert in this subject matter.
Sometimes things need to be pointed out to even the experts, also you used the word inferior which is obviously not the case. I believe the OP won't bite on the inferior notion either, he is here to pedal his wares, no need to get the base angry.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Ok ok! Be nice everyone ! Good points out there!
I have 5 minutes while I have snack.
You have to remember a few things when you read racer reports and other opinions about just about anything. Of course we are talking the Yamaha here.

Is the person getting paid ? Period ! That means there can be an agenda. Right? What about personal image?

A sacasm example---If someone wants to pay me enough to say poop tastes good?! Then I will eat it and tell you it tastes great! Yummy!

And, there are people here on the forum that feel the Yamaha is perfect ! Its great! That's because they just drive it, and learn to adapt to how it works. That's fine too.
I have driven race cars and bikes that were down right scary! But the owner or rider just learned to drive it that way? When you show them something easier to drive, they need to adapt back, then realize how hard they were working.
I can still take a car that handles badly and still drive the crap out of it! But I may be working my ass off and on the edge of disaster! Then tell you that it is way cool!
Not! I'm into the car working closer to how it should so I don't have to work as hard. And you shouldn't have to eather! Some people get a high from the scary edge of driving and feel they are in complete control and pushing the limits with an less than optimal set up. Problem is, talk like that makes it very confusing to everyone else?

Can you drive the Yamaha the way it comes off the showroom? Sure you can!
My job is to make it "easier" for you to drive the car fast or slow, so you can look and feel good about your driving experience. If the car helps you feel confidant? Than its way more fun. You can push your own limits as well as the cars if you like ! If it doesn't instill confidence? Then the car will most likely hold you back from the fun limits?
 

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Ok ok! Be nice everyone ! Good points out there!
I have 5 minutes while I have snack.
You have to remember a few things when you read racer reports and other opinions about just about anything. Of course we are talking the Yamaha here.

Is the person getting paid ? Period ! That means there can be an agenda. Right? What about personal image?

A sacasm example---If someone wants to pay me enough to say poop tastes good?! Then I will eat it and tell you it tastes great! Yummy!

And, there are people here on the forum that feel the Yamaha is perfect ! Its great! That's because they just drive it, and learn to adapt to how it works. That's fine too.
I have driven race cars and bikes that were down right scary! But the owner or rider just learned to drive it that way?
I can still take a car that handles badly and still drive the crap out of it! But I may be working my ass off and on the edge of disaster! Then tell you that it is way cool!
Not! I'm into the car working closer to how it should so I don't have to work as hard. And you shouldn't have to eather! Some people get a high from the scary edge. Can you drive the Yamaha the way it comes off the showroom? Sure you can!
My job is to make it "easier" for you to drive the car fast or slow, so you can look and feel good about your driving experience. If the car helps you feel confidant? Than its way more fun. You can push your own limits as well as the cars if you like ! If it doesn't instill confidence? Then the car will most likely hold you back from the fun limits?

Very well said Sir.
 

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Sometimes things need to be pointed out to even the experts, also you used the word inferior which is obviously not the case. I believe the OP won't bite on the inferior notion either, he is here to pedal his wares, no need to get the base angry.
I believe it is inferior design for high speed dunes and desert... which is obviously it's intended market.

I'm just not sure why with all expertise and engineers Yamaha would design it to be such.

I still haven't seen a reasonable explanation or any explanation on a technical level that explains it's superior to trailing arm designs on competitors.

But you are right about one thing... PS dodged the question, which is fine, I understand the market forces at play and not wanting to bite the hand the could potentially feed him.

No worries. You all have good day !
 
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