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Discussion Starter #181
Listen to some of the owner drivers on here that have already been through the ringer with long travel kits, or and spring kits and shock revalves and let them tell thier stories of the good, the bad and The ugly!!
What made the biggest differences! Some not so good set ups?? To way better set ups!!! Some strange ideas out there when it comes to Suspension set up ??
I see people thinking and expecting that just bolting on some springs is going to make this big difference?! It’s not! It will be a small gain, but nothing that compares to a good revalve and set up! The car can do so so much better EVERYWHERE when done right.
A handfull of good Suspension tuners are around! It’s up to the owner driver to sift through the masses to find who and what works for the individual needs.


Do it in private if nessasary! Everything dosnt always need to be talked about in these open forums!
 

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Discussion Starter #183
For the do it yourselfer, shock valving tuners out there
Here are some tips to point you in (what I feel) is the correct direction.

Front needs to be a bit firmer
Rear softer

Stock compression Valving is over hard early. That makes it harsh on the little chop.
If you valve it soft overall to try and make the little stuff smoother, you end up with a degree of much less bottom out resistance. You must think outside the box and understand how those shims work from a small short flows to heavier faster flows. just following the Fox charts will only get you a narrow band width of ride quality. A wider band width is what you want. Smooth softer beginning and firmer later in the stroke to still have good bottom out resistance.

You can arrange those shims any way you want! Drive your car and realize your changes to how the shocks perform. Once you do this a few times, will give you a better understanding of what is going on inside the shocks with valving and modifications. I would try not to do to many things all at once!! You won’t know what mod made the biggest change? And if it’s for the better or worse?

You will have to modify and or change the valving in the rear BOC, bottom out cup also. It is way over firm at the bottom of the stroke! Some tuners just Eliminate the gold cup on this device so it dosnt work at all. But if you figure it out? It is a good benefit to bottom out resistance while doing the main valving softer. I have modified this to work great for my cars.

If you don’t modify the BOC, you continue to think the main valving is still to harsh, even as you valve it softer. Because on bigger rear hits, the shock will race into that harsh hydraulic stop BOC and you get your rear compression hop!

Front rebound needs to be faster and also run higher spring rates than stock
Rear needs to be much much slower, and with softer compression valving, then you can run higher rate springs that work better for the car. Especially if your going to carry lots of goodies!

I also revalve the compression adjusters as I feel these are a bit of a bottleneck in stock form. Over harsh

Have fun
Good luck

Have fun
 

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Thanks for everyone’s posts - learning a lot about suspension from this! My question ... I have a 2019 SS SE Ultra White with the X2’s. I started on the stock settings - the when to comfort from the Fox recommendations below - made it softer but after reading the posts on here thinking of going even softer to full (four turns out) on the HSC & LSC. With that being said - what are your suggestions for HSR & LSR?

I’m mainly riding trails in Wisconsin - haven’t had any issues with bottoming out (as of yet). I did have the chance to ride with an older base YXZ and his machine was all over the place while mine (with the X2’s) seemed to float right over the same stuff.

9568DAE6-7421-446D-AA45-23DD97E0EBB6.jpeg
 

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Please!!!
Pound sand is offering a lot of good knowledge here on this site. I Don't like to waste my time reading about hurt feelings.
ie:
YXZSS post#72
and YXZSS post#74
 

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Pound Sand,
Thank you for your knowledgeable insight. I have a 2017 stock suspension yxz1000 ss with the single spring set up. After setting the stock rear the way you describe, can you offer a little insight of the best way to keep the rear from bottoming out at the bottom of the dune? I pretty much just ride Glamis.

I'm guessing a little firmer on the "fast compression setting" is the only way to get it better with the stock fox set up.
My group are fast duners so once in a while we hit the bottom of a sharp dune a little too fast.
 

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Thanks for everyone’s posts - learning a lot about suspension from this! My question ... I have a 2019 SS SE Ultra White with the X2’s. I started on the stock settings - the when to comfort from the Fox recommendations below - made it softer but after reading the posts on here thinking of going even softer to full (four turns out) on the HSC & LSC. With that being said - what are your suggestions for HSR & LSR?

I’m mainly riding trails in Wisconsin - haven’t had any issues with bottoming out (as of yet). I did have the chance to ride with an older base YXZ and his machine was all over the place while mine (with the X2’s) seemed to float right over the same stuff.

View attachment 113104
The above settings helped ... but I'm going even softer! Going to try this next ... I'm still getting 'chop' on the small trail bumps. If anyone sees something I'm missing feel free to chime in. Thanks!

Shock Setting .jpg
 

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2019 SS SE
Those settings are very close to my set up.
I added a bit more preload from stock. 1.75 turns front rings. 2.25 full turns rear rings.
The rear had way too much sag fully loaded with 2 people.

And I removed both sway bars, but quickly put the rear back on.
But I like the front removed. It really freed up the front end and soften the chop.

.
 

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The above settings helped ... but I'm going even softer! Going to try this next ... I'm still getting 'chop' on the small trail bumps. If anyone sees something I'm missing feel free to chime in. Thanks!

View attachment 113286
My dealer - Powersports1 in Appleton, WI is owned by Rod Van Eperen (2017 TORC PRO MOD Championship). I had my machine in for its first oil change and check-up and had a chance to talk suspension with him. I showed him where I had it (picture above) and he recommended I 'open em all up' and let the suspension do its thing. I took my machine to an ATV park near us and ran the settings I was originally running - then moved to his recommendations (LSC & HSC at four tuns out ... did the same with the LSR & HSR ... four turns out) - what a difference!

To be fair ... I'm typically running my YXZ on WI trails - really haven't 'jumped' it or had the chance to. The chop is gone - machine feels like it's hooking up much better and I'm using more of the available suspension. I was taking some pretty big hits and never once bottomed out. Ride seems much more 'comfotable' as well. Much happier with this now!
 

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I am new to this and learning a lot. You explained a lot of the older YXZ with single spring set up and also the x2 shocks with dual spring. I have a 19 Blue SS SE with the RC2. I live and ride mostly desert. It is very rough over whoops ruts and chop. Can you advise on this. Car only has 80 miles on it. I weigh only 145 and am carrying less than 50 in the bed
 

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I am new to this and learning a lot. You explained a lot of the older YXZ with single spring set up and also the x2 shocks with dual spring. I have a 19 Blue SS SE with the RC2. I live and ride mostly desert. It is very rough over whoops ruts and chop. Can you advise on this. Car only has 80 miles on it. I weigh only 145 and am carrying less than 50 in the bed
I have a 2019 YXZ SS SE just like yours. I sold my 2016 YXZ with 9K miles, that I had tuned the suspension to perfection. My 2019 factory suspension has been upgraded over the older YXZ's, better spring rates and valving from the factory. However, during the first ride in my 2019 it was stiff. The first thing I did was drop the PSI in my tires to 13lbs form 20lbs. The other thing you need to do is let the shocks break-in. It takes about 400 miles for this to happen, then upgrade to 30" tires. I went with the EFX MotoVator. These tire measure a full 30", stock tires are closer to 28". Tires are part of your suspension, so always remember that. The extra sidewall will help the ride quality. The other thing I did was turn my high speed compression settings (17mm nut) to all the way soft (left). The low speed compression keep at the stock setting which is about halfway between the two extremes. The rebound settings you want 12 clicks out from all the way left (rebound clickers are at the bottom of the shock tower for the RC2's).

With my current setup, it takes the small chatter and whoops like a champ. I don't jump, so not sure how it will perform jumping. I called Fox, and had a good chat with one of their engineers and he advised I use the settings mentioned above. It is my opinion that the factory shocks on the 2019 should work fine for most riders if you follow the instructions above. I have 3700 miles on my 2019, and don't plan on doing any upgrades to my shocks at this point. The industry will tell you different, because they want you to spend $1500 (or more) for new springs and valving. The older YXZ's I would agree they need upgrading. So far, I am not convinced that is true with the 2019's (SE models).
 

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Ok ok! Be nice everyone ! Good points out there!
I have 5 minutes while I have snack.
You have to remember a few things when you read racer reports and other opinions about just about anything. Of course we are talking the Yamaha here.

Is the person getting paid ? Period ! That means there can be an agenda. Right? What about personal image?

A sacasm example---If someone wants to pay me enough to say poop tastes good?! Then I will eat it and tell you it tastes great! Yummy!

And, there are people here on the forum that feel the Yamaha is perfect ! Its great! That's because they just drive it, and learn to adapt to how it works. That's fine too.
I have driven race cars and bikes that were down right scary! But the owner or rider just learned to drive it that way? When you show them something easier to drive, they need to adapt back, then realize how hard they were working.
I can still take a car that handles badly and still drive the crap out of it! But I may be working my ass off and on the edge of disaster! Then tell you that it is way cool!
Not! I'm into the car working closer to how it should so I don't have to work as hard. And you shouldn't have to eather! Some people get a high from the scary edge of driving and feel they are in complete control and pushing the limits with an less than optimal set up. Problem is, talk like that makes it very confusing to everyone else?

Can you drive the Yamaha the way it comes off the showroom? Sure you can!
My job is to make it "easier" for you to drive the car fast or slow, so you can look and feel good about your driving experience. If the car helps you feel confidant? Than its way more fun. You can push your own limits as well as the cars if you like ! If it doesn't instill confidence? Then the car will most likely hold you back from the fun limits?
im looking for a smother ride on slower rocky trails what set up do you perfer?
also i was wondering if you had any experience withe the velocity shock on the yxz?
 

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First "simple" tip of the day

Fronts
Open your front rebound adjuster all the way open ( counterclock )
Open both hi and low speed adjuster all the way open ( counterclock )
Turn the small flat head screwdriver adjuster inward 4 to 6 full 180 turns

Rear
Turn your rebound adjusters all the way closed! ( clockwise ), then back out ( counter clock ) one click
Turn both hi and low speed adjusters all the way open. (Counter clock)

This is an easy starting point to make the car the softest and fly more level more of the time with its stock springs and valving.
Lots of variables with different drivers, including weights, of driver? Passenger and cargo. Do individual tuning from here will be a bit easier for the masses! Especially because you will only have one way to go on on the compression side! Don't even bother with rebound adjusters! They will only confuse you.
Just slowly firm it up to your taste. Only make one adjustment at a time on eather the front or rear so you know the outcome of the adjustment. Making more than one adjustment at a time will make it more difficult to know what made the car better or worse!

The WHY.
The front is under sprung, The front needs more spring to push it up and keep it up in the stroke so you can run it a bit lower travel, and use a bit more soft beginning valving.

The rear is over sprung. Probably so you can max out the 300 lb load limit and more in the rear with beer and munchies for a large party? Lol
The lower shock mounting point, and angles are far from ideal. The geometry makes it more difficult to match up valving and spring rates. But it's still doable.
With the car rear lifted, we backed off the spring collar till the springs became loose, the tighten back up only a 1/4 inch

Tip 2
If your a mostly solo driver? Or you weigh 100 lbs more than your passenger?
You should set your ride heights differently on the driver side as compared to the passenger side. And if your the twig, and your passenger out weighs you? Then you can compansate for this too.
Your car should run closer to level when your loaded. If your a big driver, your cheating yourself on your suspension on your side! Turn those spring collars downward to compansate some for your weight. You can even run the adjusters a bit firmer on the heavier side.

Moto
Could you define "1 Click" does that refer to one complete revolution of the rebound adjusters? Also, I'm a big guy 300lbs+, would I adjust the driver's side higher to be at standard ride height when I'm in the car, or should it be higher than standard? Sorry, I'm a newbie to SxSs and still learning the finer points to suspension, etc.
 

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I have a 2019 YXZ SS SE just like yours. I sold my 2016 YXZ with 9K miles, that I had tuned the suspension to perfection. My 2019 factory suspension has been upgraded over the older YXZ's, better spring rates and valving from the factory. However, during the first ride in my 2019 it was stiff. The first thing I did was drop the PSI in my tires to 13lbs form 20lbs. The other thing you need to do is let the shocks break-in. It takes about 400 miles for this to happen, then upgrade to 30" tires. I went with the EFX MotoVator. These tire measure a full 30", stock tires are closer to 28". Tires are part of your suspension, so always remember that. The extra sidewall will help the ride quality. The other thing I did was turn my high speed compression settings (17mm nut) to all the way soft (left). The low speed compression keep at the stock setting which is about halfway between the two extremes. The rebound settings you want 12 clicks out from all the way left (rebound clickers are at the bottom of the shock tower for the RC2's).

With my current setup, it takes the small chatter and whoops like a champ. I don't jump, so not sure how it will perform jumping. I called Fox, and had a good chat with one of their engineers and he advised I use the settings mentioned above. It is my opinion that the factory shocks on the 2019 should work fine for most riders if you follow the instructions above. I have 3700 miles on my 2019, and don't plan on doing any upgrades to my shocks at this point. The industry will tell you different, because they want you to spend $1500 (or more) for new springs and valving. The older YXZ's I would agree they need upgrading. So far, I am not convinced that is true with the 2019's (SE models).
ok so I’m a little confused here on rebound
I fully understand high and low speed compression and how they work
For what Fox manual says and what Pound Sand says for rebound turning all the way clockwise means soft(less rebound) ? Is that correct because in my YXZ manual it says turning all the way clockwise to harden(increase) rebound dampening force

can someone please clarify this
 

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First "simple" tip of the day

Fronts
Open your front rebound adjuster all the way open ( counterclock )
Open both hi and low speed adjuster all the way open ( counterclock )
Turn the small flat head screwdriver adjuster inward 4 to 6 full 180 turns

Rear
Turn your rebound adjusters all the way closed! ( clockwise ), then back out ( counter clock ) one click
Turn both hi and low speed adjusters all the way open. (Counter clock)

This is an easy starting point to make the car the softest and fly more level more of the time with its stock springs and valving.
Lots of variables with different drivers, including weights, of driver? Passenger and cargo. Do individual tuning from here will be a bit easier for the masses! Especially because you will only have one way to go on on the compression side! Don't even bother with rebound adjusters! They will only confuse you.
Just slowly firm it up to your taste. Only make one adjustment at a time on eather the front or rear so you know the outcome of the adjustment. Making more than one adjustment at a time will make it more difficult to know what made the car better or worse!

The WHY.
The front is under sprung, The front needs more spring to push it up and keep it up in the stroke so you can run it a bit lower travel, and use a bit more soft beginning valving.

The rear is over sprung. Probably so you can max out the 300 lb load limit and more in the rear with beer and munchies for a large party? Lol
The lower shock mounting point, and angles are far from ideal. The geometry makes it more difficult to match up valving and spring rates. But it's still doable.
With the car rear lifted, we backed off the spring collar till the springs became loose, the tighten back up only a 1/4 inch

Tip 2
If your a mostly solo driver? Or you weigh 100 lbs more than your passenger?
You should set your ride heights differently on the driver side as compared to the passenger side. And if your the twig, and your passenger out weighs you? Then you can compansate for this too.
Your car should run closer to level when your loaded. If your a big driver, your cheating yourself on your suspension on your side! Turn those spring collars downward to compansate some for your weight. You can even run the adjusters a bit firmer on the heavier side.

Moto
Question... You say Open both high & low speed adjusters all the way, then the third line says "turn flathead adjuster inward 4-6 turns" But the flathead screwdriver IS the low speed adjuster you just said to turn all the way out???
 

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ok so I’m a little confused here on rebound
I fully understand high and low speed compression and how they work
For what Fox manual says and what Pound Sand says for rebound turning all the way clockwise means soft(less rebound) ? Is that correct because in my YXZ manual it says turning all the way clockwise to harden(increase) rebound dampening force

can someone please clarify this
Not sure, "softer and harder" is the best way to describe rebound. As pound sand says, think faster and slower for the rebound. All the way in, clockwise, will slow the rebound, conversely, all the out, CCW, will speed up rebound.
 
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